Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Welcome to a new era everyone.
I heard there were potential cuts and such people were holding out on. So anyone have examples to bring up?
The First man
Professor Gigachad
Yeah I do have one. Alright so now that these threads are open I regrettably have to propose that one of the old characters that I got approved that needs to be cut now. That being Entity 01 from Five Nights at Wario's. This is my first time doing this for a character I got approved and the first cut proposal of the new threads.
Entity 01 did probably count when the games came out and he is still for sure heinous enough, though parts of his writeup turned out to not be fully accurate. However, very recently the creator released two lore videos that introduce some disqualifying factors for him.
- The first one is that Entity 01 now has some probable agency problems. The lore videos introduce a higher power named Entity 00 (doesn't count in case you are wondering) who was the one that created the entire FNAW universe, also no this isn't an Author Avatar as the creator himself makes clear. They created Entity 01 to be the ultimate embodiment of conflict and thus everything that he did is just due to it being in his nature.
- The second is that he honored his deal with Bruno despite being salty over losing he still healed his daughter. Now, this is actually in the game which I did miss at the time but there it wasn't made clear it was him. The lore videos make clear that yes it is him that did this for no pragmatic reason.
- The third one is that Entity 01 is presented more sympathetically in the videos. He has no idea why he even exists and desperately seeks to figure out just why he exists, and this is played sympathetically. This was also something that was hinted at in the games but never fully made clear.
I could potentially see arguments against the first one but the third and especially the second one I can't really see any way of getting around them. Also before anyone asks this isn't just random Word of God statements but these videos are full stories of the entire lore of Five Nights At Wario's.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Cut Entity.
IPP Wick Check created.
Lucas the Dreamer
The entry for Suguru Kamoshida ends a bit abruptly so I wanted to add this ending
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Dec 9th 2022 at 9:02:51 AM
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
The Moron
Well, to start things out, the Entity sounds like a tragic cut.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Reading the entry myself, I’m okay with that change! This’d be the full entry then, sans potholes cause I’m on mobile:
- Suguru Kamoshida is a gym coach and a dangerous sexual predator. Protected by the school administration due to his past fame as an Olympic gold medalist, Kamoshida perversely extorts sexual favors from his female students. Forcing his male students into brutal training regimes, Kamoshida often beats them, resulting in students of both genders living in constant fear of him. Seeking to shut down the track team, Kamoshida provokes their star athlete into punching him and breaks the boy's leg in "self-defense". When his "favorite" victim refuses to sleep with him, Kamoshida rapes her best friend Shiho Suzui in petty vengeance, resulting in Shiho attempting suicide. While only a minor threat in the grand scheme of the plot, Kamoshida’s heart is among the most vile stolen by the Phantom Thieves.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 9th 2022 at 9:10:25 AM
Woagh
Cut Entity 01.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Just to clarify: Cuts do not require the 24-hour rumination period before voting?
Kamoshida edit looks good.
The Moron
As I remember that was specifically for discussions on approving candidates, not cutting them
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Remember that Complete Monster is a neutral trope. A character being one is not necessarily a good thing, and one being disqualified is not a bad thing. Calling a cut "tragic" may lead to a mindset that encourages shoehorning.
For YMMV.Warframe, the writeup for Nef Anyo's entry has this section:
- Those who fail Nef are punished via repossession of limbs and organs, possibly leading to being reduced to a Brain in a Jar that's kept alive but deprived of sensory input. When the Orokin terraforming tower plan failed, Nef punished Eudico by forcing her to select 50 of her workers to be brain-shelved.
When I originally wrote this example, the first sentence here specified that this punishment is called brain-shelving, but this was removed for some reason. This leaves the term brain-shelving to be introduced without context in the next sentence instead. Now, the term is easy enough to understand that it might not be necessary, but I think it might still be a good idea to mention the punishment's name at the same time as it's described.
The Moron
Is there a way to restructure the first sentence to introduce the term organically? I agree that it would work better if the term were included first before just being used out of nowhere
Lucas the Dreamer
Actually I think I can improve it further.
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Dec 9th 2022 at 9:25:32 AM
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I think my original version of the sentence was "Those who fail Nef are punished via repossession of limbs and organs, possibly leading to brain-shelving: being reduced to a Brain in a Jar that's kept alive but deprived of sensory input." It's not massively longer and would flow better in my opinion.
The Moron
Works for me!
Just call me Solemn.
Let me throw my hat in the ring for Kamoshida's writeup: there should not be three present participles in a row. Here's my edit:
If any of you can do better, be my guest.
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Present participle overuse is one issue I brought up in the thread, so I'm all for rewording examples to use less of them.
Alright, cut Entity 01. In general I'm gonna abstain on rewrites for works I'm unfamiliar with.
Showtime!
Cut entity, Kamoshida's writeup looks better
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Cut Entity 01
Also I asked a question and if candidates already approved and on the pending CM write-up list can have their write-ups created here since they're already approved and according the Mod MarconNotes (correct me if I'm wrong) they said that its okay, so to anyone who has their candidate approved and waiting to write-up them up feel free bring them up here.
RIP Toriyama
Glad to see a new thread, let's do good work here, folks!
So, if I'm reading Macron's post right, we can go ahead and post write-ups that were already pending on the previous threads straight to here without needing to wait for the approval threads. I'll get to work on slapping mine that were pending up soon. EDIT: ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd by above ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
In the meantime? The Entity sounds like a Cut, but definitely see why the discussion was worth having on a forum to hash it out. I'm good with Kamoshida's rewrite changes as well, nice work to everyone who contributed !
Edited by Ravok on Dec 9th 2022 at 6:30:40 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The ones that were already approved can be added. Those that haven't been approved yet will have to wait.
Just call me Solemn.
Am I allowed to make minor edits to writeups on YMMV pages without my edits being now, or should I wait a little longer? There's a minor factual error I'd like to correct on Volo's writeup. The sentence:
Should be:
Volo's true intentions are not discovered against his will, as the phrasal verb "found out" would suggest — he voluntarily reveals them once the protagonist has found the Plates for him.
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
Showtime!
You can do that directly on ymmv without consulting the thread now, just don;t forget to run it through the locked pages thread
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
In support of nixing the Entity, and I have another I think needs to go, before I get my writeups in.
From YMMV.Rurouni Kenshin:
- Gein, Enishi's Dragon, is a Psycho for Hire, Blood Knight, and an all around sicko who joins Enishi's campaign and offers him advice on mind raping Kenshin, not for revenge, but for kicks and a chance to test his abilities. He makes puppets out of corpses, kills or murders everyone who crosses his path, sees war as a chance for fun and intellectual masturbation, and was the mastermind behind the plan to fake Kaoru's murder, just to screw with Kenshin's head. On top of that, he was named after Ed Gein.
Now, I think this one is a bit of a poorly written entry, while simultaneously...not really saying why he counts or hits heinousness? Gein is nasty, but his body count is a little small and I don't recall him doing much by way of active bodycount while other members of Enishi's team are far worse.
Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 9th 2022 at 6:45:50 AM
The Moron
Yep, you can do that yourself! Just ask the mods to make the same change to Monster.Pokemon on the Locked pages thread.
Edit: 'd
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 9th 2022 at 9:46:28 AM
Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread
.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
What does not go through this thread?
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Macron's notes