Paging ~nw09 to the thread.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.(Huh, expected more Spell My Name With An S misuse in wicks.)
For diambig we'll need to see what to with other stated categories. The third one may be Adaptation Name Change as well.
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupI was actually thinking Dub Name Change (though I neglected to mention that), but Adaptation Name Change might work as well.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Forgot Dub Name Change is also a thing.
The Unpronounceable, Inconsistent Dub and Sudden Name Change may be the more disambig options.
Edited by Amonimus on Nov 16th 2022 at 3:34:47 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupInconsistent Dub and Sudden Name Change seem like they'd cover the second bullet point.
Between that and the third bullet point being covered by Dub Name Change, that leaves the first bullet point, which the wick check doesn't appear to have any examples of (or at least not enough to keep the trope from being wick-starved if we narrow it down to that), so I'm in favor of disambiguating the other bullet points.
I'm not sure whether the first bullet point even counts as a trope even after getting past the lack of examples. The fact that written works don't always give the pronunciation of names and terms in them is simply a result of the works being written and not spoken. If anything, it would be a trope if written works did provide a pronunciation guide, whether it's via a glossary or a footnote.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 16th 2022 at 7:24:17 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Literal examples of "no pronunciation guide" have questionable tropeworthiness. I mean, unless it's a tv adaptation, I've never heard of "pronunciation guide" concept existing (Aside Japanese media liking to give character names in both alphabets to avert Alternate Character Reading).
e: Also found another aversion (including double-aversions?) of No Pronunciation Guide in Hollywood Spelling.
Edited by Amonimus on Nov 16th 2022 at 4:29:19 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupI realized something about the first bullet point, which I didn't 100% consider when I wrote my previous posts despite kind of discussing it: It's defined in the negative, meaning not only is it the absence of something in a work, it's something TRS has encountered in the past and determined to not be a trope (since tropes are about things that are in a work) each time I've seen such cases brought up. Nobody Over 50 Is Gay and Stray Shots Strike Nothing are the only cases I can think of that had threads since I started posting on TRS, but there might be some other cases I'm forgetting.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 16th 2022 at 11:13:09 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I think this is one of those early pages that describe an observation but aren't really tropeworthy. A lot of them are like, "Hey, have you noticed that [thing] doesn't happen...?" Leading to cuts like
The first bullet point is also somewhat ambiguous. Given that the Real Life section establishes that most languages aren't phonetically consistent, one could argue that every written work without a pronunciation guide could qualify.
Several examples elsewhere on the page also boil down to "some fans disagree with the author", which is bound to happen. This doesn't always mean that the pronunciation is ambiguous, it could just be that part of the audience missed some wordplay or that name just isn't common where they life.
I'd also say that most of the film and tv examples can't count, on the basis that you can hear the pronunciation. Sometimes pronunciations differ because different actors have different accents, but "more than 1 accent appears" isn't exactly a trope.
There are also many examples in the Video Game page in which the original game plays the trope straight, but the remake of the same game becomes Suddenly Voiced and finally has Word of God or Word of Saint Paul settling pronunciation debates.
There should be a soft split for examples of such video games (and also placed in folders by genre) between video games without Suddenly Voiced remakes and video games with Suddenly Voiced remakes.
Edited by Nen_desharu on Nov 16th 2022 at 11:27:40 AM
Kirby is awesome.The first point seems like a functional duplicate of viewer pronounciation confusion.
The entries that boil down to "This work uses phonemes English doesn't have" or "viewers have trouble with a word from another language" sound like complaining.
Edited by VerySunshine on Nov 16th 2022 at 12:54:57 PM
Hooked a crowner for whether to disambiguate, since, as I said, the first concept has no examples in the wick check on top of being defined in the negative, and we already found places to move examples of the other concepts to.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.So should we call?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper WallCalling thread in favor of "Disambiguate between Dub Name Change, Adaptation Name Change, The Unpronouncable, Inconsistent Dub, Sudden Name Change, Viewer Pronunciation Confusion, and Alternate Character Reading".
Macron's notesThere may be rare cases of an In-Universe example of someone not knowing the pronunciation. Luckily, that sandbox back when we dealt with It Is Pronounced Tro-PAY is still standing, so send any such cases there.
I did encounter one such case.
Edit: That reminds me, I need to start sorting that sandbox!
Edited by Berrenta on Nov 22nd 2022 at 6:24:32 AM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportI remember that sandbox! Let's put that in the OP.
I forgot to mention that some time ago, me (and prolly other tropers) got it down to 975 wicks.
I didn't realize this TRS thread was still going on or I would have mentioned this before: we have a TLP draft predating this thread called Inconsistent Pronunciation that covers cases where characters In-Universe pronounce the same name differently.
I suppose when that launches, it could go on the disambiguation page. I'll link to it in the to-do list in case anyone wants to move anything there.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.975 wicks
- No Pronunciation Guide: Subverted. There IS a pronunciation guide, as in, a literal guide to the pronunciations, in the back of the book, but that didn't stop the movie from getting several of them wrong.
@_@
Edited by Tabs on Feb 1st 2023 at 1:30:29 AM
444 wicks left, just Characters/, WebAnimation/, WebVideo left.
On a now cut page
- Casual Interstellar Travel: The intro implies that the game takes place on the moon.
- No Pronunciation Guide: The narrator mispronounces "salon" as "saloon" at least once
Just Characters/ left now.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.No Pronunciation Guide is no more, so I hereby pronounce this thread concluded.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
No Pronunciation Guide appears to be covering multiple concepts at once, and they appear to already be covered elsewhere, with one concept that isn't (written works that don't indicate the pronunciation of something where the spelling leaves it ambiguous) not only lacking examples in the wick check, but also being defined in the negative (with being defined in the negative being determined to prevent something from being a trope in the past) and other concepts being covered elsewhere. What should be done with No Pronunciation Guide?
To-do list
No Pronunciation Guide is used for multiple different ideas at once, as shown by the wick check:
Proposing a disambiguation.
Wick Check
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 16th 2023 at 12:13:49 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.