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Draco in Leather Pants misuse

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Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#1: Nov 9th 2022 at 1:28:57 PM

I've noticed a lot of DILP entries that don't really make the case that fans are downplaying a villain's crimes, but instead act like merely liking or defending the villain at all qualifies as the trope, even if fans still acknowledge that they're the villain. These entries often make aspersions on the work's fandom, or read like this: "[Character] gets this a lot from fans, but this ignores the fact that they [list of the villain's crimes]." Some of these entries also come off as sexist, such as this one:

  • The Dark Knight Trilogy: The Joker and the Scarecrow/Jonathan Crane seem to get this a lot in fanfiction for the Nolanverse Batman films. Leave it to crazed fangirls to pick two of the most evil characters in a series that actually has several sympathetic (or in the case of the ordinary mobsters, at least normal) villains to crush on.

It also doesn't help that the trope page itself seems to attribute the trope to fans finding the villain physically attractive, and states (without citing any evidence) that it's mostly fangirls who invoke the trope. I'm starting to think it might be better if this trope was limited to specific fanon examples, similar to what was done with Ron the Death Eater. Thoughts?

Edited by Javertshark13 on Nov 9th 2022 at 4:29:07 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#2: Nov 9th 2022 at 1:35:43 PM

As I said at the ATT thread, Ron the Death Eater is not about specific fanon examples. While you did point out that this is a lot of the usage, that usage comes from the fact that the trope was never actually cleaned after the TRS effort. It was kicked back to a cleanup thread that hasn't progressed since. Officially, that trope is now for the general trend of demonizing a character in fanworks.

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Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#3: Nov 9th 2022 at 1:39:10 PM

Okay, I didn't know that, but I'm more concerned with the DILP misuse. Can we start a cleanup thread for that?

Edited by Javertshark13 on Nov 9th 2022 at 4:40:09 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4: Nov 9th 2022 at 1:40:02 PM

We may already have one actually.

I don't remember if the TRS discussion covered both tropes. It might've.

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Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#5: Nov 9th 2022 at 1:40:27 PM

I checked the DILP page and I didn't see one.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#7: Nov 14th 2022 at 2:15:21 PM

That thread is closed. Can a new one be made?

Edited by Javertshark13 on Nov 14th 2022 at 5:15:45 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8: Nov 14th 2022 at 2:17:18 PM

The thread closed because the problem resolved. What would you want to go back to TRS for?

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Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#9: Nov 14th 2022 at 3:16:06 PM

Then where should the trope misuse be addressed?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#10: Nov 14th 2022 at 3:16:31 PM

At the cleanup thread, which I believe is in short term?

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themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#11: Nov 14th 2022 at 3:18:41 PM

The cleanup thread. Currently covers Ron the Death Eater but I'm sure it could be expanded to Draco in Leather Pants, if it isn't already.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Javertshark13 Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#13: Nov 14th 2022 at 3:21:03 PM

I think DILP has a clean thread too but I've always thought the threads should be merged anyway. Heck maybe it's worth making a new one for both.

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CloverGoldngreen (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
#14: May 23rd 2024 at 9:13:17 AM

Does anyone else think this trope's name sounds more like an alternate name for Evil Is Sexy?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#15: May 23rd 2024 at 9:20:20 AM

I don't, no, mostly because "leather pants" don't conjure up sexy images to me lol (my mental image of the trope name is very dumb looking)

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randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#16: May 24th 2024 at 10:30:52 PM

I had to slash an example from Catch Me If You Can because it was Frank Abnagle complaining that the movie itself was doing this, as well as natter calling him a hypocrite.

TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
#17: May 26th 2024 at 12:03:20 AM

[up][up] I think "sexy" is the most obvious reading of the name. If "leather pants" isn't associated with sexiness, then it's just associated with nothing. No one hears "leather pants" and thinks "moral goodness".

The trope originally had a big emphasis on fans whitewashing a villain because they find them attractive, which also accounts for so much casual sexism about "crazy fangirls" (though there was a time when that was basically universal on this site).

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#18: May 26th 2024 at 12:05:10 AM

Oh, I'm aware of what it actually means. But if it comes down to opinion I just don't personally see it, and opinions were what was being asked for.

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TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
#19: May 26th 2024 at 5:52:20 PM

[up] What do you think the title does communicate?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#20: May 26th 2024 at 5:58:32 PM

I already said it. I'm aware that my take is entirely specific to my own mind though. To me it doesn't actually communicate much of anything since you:

  • Need to know who Draco is, or at least that they're a villain
  • Need to understand what the "leather pants" part is in reference to

So I genuinely just find it to be a clunky and unindicative title that in all honesty evokes almost nothing in my brain despite me knowing what it should mean.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#21: May 27th 2024 at 11:11:39 AM

The original Draco In Leather Pants was The Draco Trilogy but he only briefly wears the pants, and the story does not whitewash Draco he has to earn his redemption.

TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
#22: May 27th 2024 at 11:29:05 AM

[up][up] I completely agree. It relies on way too much assumed knowledge. "Ron the Death Eater" is also bad, but at least it makes sense if you've read Harry Potter, one of the most popular book series ever.

For DILP, you need to not only know Harry Potter, but remember that the character who is called "Malloy" 99% of the time also has the first name Draco. And then you need to realize what "leather pants" means, and then you need to ignore what it means because sexiness isn't actually part of the trope.

EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#23: May 27th 2024 at 11:51:46 AM

Both are names that wouldn't fly with today's standards, but they are fairly intuitive upon reading the tropes. Wiki parlance started using "gave them leather pants" as a shorthand for "trying to make them more appealing," as Fanservice doesn't have to be explicit Male Gaze / Female Gaze, nude scenes or Stripperiffic attire, as sometimes a pretty face and an air of confidence goes a long way. Things like The Ace and Competence Porn are other ways of making a character appealing that doesn't involve showing skin.

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
SharkToast Since: Mar, 2013
#24: May 27th 2024 at 12:02:57 PM

I feel like these names are so ingrained in the site's user base that, despite neither being very intuitive, people know what they mean. Any confusion I've seen is people assuming that the tropes are more specific than they are: Some users seem to think that Draco in Leather Pants is specifically about villains getting whitewashed because they're attractive, while I've seen some users say that Ron the Death Eater is for when a character is demonized for getting in the way of a ship. But both tropes have gone through TRS already so I assume that the misuse wasn't enough to warrant a rename. If we do rename them, is there a name that would accurately summarize these concepts?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#25: May 27th 2024 at 12:15:06 PM

I kinda doubt a rename trs would go anywhere. The site base has too much attachment to it for it.

And it's hard to justify renaming something which such a high Wick count of people it brought in. 111,754 is massive.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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