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LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#2176: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:29:14 AM

I lean again towards blanket not having those interactions then. Hearing that no other threads do this also cements it.

In theory it's great to be encouraging people. In practice it's part of the thread's toxic culture.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#2177: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:30:43 AM

Of all the things to be calling a part of a toxic culture, saying happy birthday frankly isn't one. Blanket bans will do nothing but alienate people and it's not a step I can support, and the fact that no other threads do it isn't an instant argument because these threads simply function differently from other ones.

Like, in a thread where you can interact with a relatively similar group of people every day in a relatively casual setting, you're going to get close enough to wish each other a happy birthday as long as things are kept productive.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Oct 11th 2022 at 9:36:08 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#2178: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:49:36 AM

Agreed that socialization shouldn't be completely blanket-banned— it helps enforce a friendlier atmosphere and if anything reduces toxicity— but similarly agreed that this isn't a social thread and, if it's mentioned, it should be during thread proceedings. Anything else should go on more social threads.

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#2179: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:50:34 AM

No other thread doing isn't so much CM/MB being rebellious and more other threads choosing not to do it on their own. While it's fine if we decide now not to do those, saying it's due to CM/MB being toxic feels like a vast misblame.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2180: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:52:21 AM

Also, back to a previous topic: If people change the YMMV for, say, spelling, they don't have to bring it to the thread, but can we at least encourage them to and/or request the change on the locked pages thread, so that the entries match? If there's a spelling or grammar issue, that's something I'd LIKE to be aware of so it can be fixed.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#2181: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:52:47 AM

I mean, even if it's not an intentional toxicity, it definitely contributes to a cliquey environment. I'm a thread regular and it makes me feel weird sometimes

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#2182: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:53:05 AM

Agreed, the blanket ban sounds really strict and a likely overcorrection. I think people can be more mindful about trying to include everyone when they choose to respond to "social" posts but the big thing I think will remedy the issue of going of course is ensuring each post is furthering the purpose of the thread, "Happy birthday" and the like can be tacked on but shouldn't be posted alone.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#2183: Oct 11th 2022 at 6:54:23 AM

In my opinion at least, there's a difference between a cliquey environment and an attempt at a sense of community with other people, and I personally think that some amount of personal stuff as long as it doesn't derail the thread contributes to the latter more than the former.

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#2184: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:01:09 AM

response to [1]:

The mod tags next to usernames in ATT aren't like the pink mod-mode posts in the forum. They're always on, and they're applied (and un-applied) retroactively. MacronNotes posted in that thread and has a mod tag next to her name, even though she wasn't a mod back then. Nombretomado's post would've had a mod tag on it when she originally posted it, but since she retired from the position it is now gone.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#2185: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:02:27 AM

Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification!

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#2186: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:13:51 AM

So, I believe this also provides moderator precedent for the thread being okay to indulge in (Fairly mild) social interaction. We keep it to comments rather than derailing, we should be okay. I don't see any reason to remove it when it isn't doing potent damage to the thread's efficiency or environment.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2187: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:17:35 AM

Regarding the discussion about archiving the old threads, I'm pretty sure the plan was already to send the old threads to the Projects Morgue after the new threads are made, since that's the subforum where Projects threads are archived. The reason they're not already there (as well as why they're pinned) is to make the closure of those threads more visible.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2022 at 9:19:23 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2188: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:31:41 AM

I'll ask again: Can a mod please add this to the top post?

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#2189: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:39:52 AM

The point of a effortpost/cleanup thread is to make effortposts/clean up. It is not to make small talk. Again, we have an entire subforum for that. The entire wiki is not confined to these threads. They are not hanging grounds.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Oct 11th 2022 at 10:40:23 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#2190: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:41:46 AM

But again, there's a difference between running completely wild and derailing everything and just slipping in some things so that we can all be more friendly to each other. Again, these are people that we're hoping to interact with as much as possible, and blanket banning personal chitchat just seems like a way to make things more tense and uninviting.

Did people do it wrong before? Oh yeah, but there's a way to do it to foster a more positive environment without the kinds of derailments we had before.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Oct 11th 2022 at 10:42:36 AM

Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
Buzz
#2191: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:43:37 AM

Should we segregate the entries on the Thread Suggestions sandbox based on what's been agreed upon? Like this:

  • General Agreement
  • Agreement with a caveat
  • Decision yet to be made

Edited by Paperfly on Oct 11th 2022 at 7:53:12 AM

Image Pickin' Backlog
GastonRabbit MOD C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#2192: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:43:45 AM

The Thread Suggestions sandbox has been added to the header. I overlooked the request before because I wasn't actively reading the thread (not intentionally; I've been sick lately and I've been a bit less active than usual as a result).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2022 at 9:46:03 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#2193: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:44:12 AM

I’m just saying that I never see other cleanup threads where people make posts dedicated specifically to small talk. Why should these be an exception?

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#2194: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:46:31 AM

I personally don't see the point of outright banning stuff like to with Happy Birthdays or Condolences/Be Well because they never properly derail the thread. Usually people are voting while saying their piece or say their piece when pushing out an EP. I wouldn't call it thread derailing when there's been multiple occurrences of genuine thread derailing from users from them asking irrelevant questions. To me that made the thread less intimidating for me to join just under a year ago now?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#2195: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:48:56 AM

I'm fine with us not having posts dedicated specifically to small talk. I just also feel that a blanket ban on it will make the threads a bit less welcoming, and that's the opposite of what we want.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#2196: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:49:00 AM

Likewise don't personally see how "no longer saying happy b-day and being friendly in the midst of voting and real discussion" would equate to "lessening toxicity", myself.

Edited by Ravok on Oct 11th 2022 at 7:49:28 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#2197: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:49:24 AM

I'm specifically saying that posts shouldn't just be about small talk, just that there's nothing wrong with slipping it in to posts that have an actual thread purpose. If someone specifically just says "Happy birthday" that's one thing - but if someone says "[tup] for your candidate, happy birthday!" I don't see what the issue is.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Oct 11th 2022 at 10:49:54 AM

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#2198: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:50:29 AM

@Star, that seems like a fine compromise.

Edit: I feel like I'm not doing the best at explaining some of my thought processes. The point isn't that we want people to not be welcoming. It's that, in the past, these pages of well-wish only responses DO come off as toxic when it's obvious that you aren't in with the "in crowd" and aren't getting the same.

I seem to end up proposing harsher measures in general than what people want, but that's part of discussion.

Edited by LargoQuagmire on Oct 11th 2022 at 7:55:53 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#2199: Oct 11th 2022 at 7:53:29 AM

@ STAR As that was what I was gunning for as well I'm in full agreement.

Edited by 43110 on Oct 11th 2022 at 10:57:05 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#2200: Oct 11th 2022 at 8:03:34 AM

Then the threads can make sure to wish more people well when they do it so people don't feel left out. Some members of the thread already do make a point of trying to be kind to those who are less with the "in crowd" of the thread and that should expand, rather than be restricted.

Again, as long as it's not bogging down the threads and promoting inefficiency? I think we're okay.


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