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ReddishGuy1 Since: Jul, 2014
#1926: Oct 10th 2022 at 9:53:01 AM

I'm not sure if it's the same one, but I know the thread approved a candidate from an anime film that was basically Church of Happyology propaganda. Granted, it wasn't as overt a propaganda film as other entries, but it was still made by a religious sect in Japan to push their teachings.

Just imagine something here.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1927: Oct 10th 2022 at 9:58:21 AM

No Church of Happyology is the site's nickname for scientology which is different than that religion. also Ravko explained that it isn't propoganda (at least by the standards the thread had at the time)

EDIT sorry I misread the post. I get your point though it should be clarified that the "Happy Science" cult is not the Church of Happyology.

Also looking through the page again my use of Church of Happyology on this thread is a sinkhole since that term is only used to refer to parodies, so I'll jus call it scientology from now on.

Edited by papyru30 on Oct 10th 2022 at 11:06:22 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#1928: Oct 10th 2022 at 9:58:46 AM

It's a thorny question, and one I think need serious, frank and open discussion.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Oct 10th 2022 at 9:59:09 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1929: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:12:44 AM

Wasn't the last time Scientology came up. It generated an insane response in TRS. I think theirs an unwritten rule to not bring it up?

(I think from the TRS?).

[down]Obviously you can mention the name but I thought as a general rule were not supposed to bring up stuff like their beliefs or mention full stuff from their unless I'm mistaken.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 10th 2022 at 10:19:54 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#1930: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:16:31 AM

The "should we trope propaganda works" has come up not just here but in other areas as well. I think Stonetoss (which was cut not for being propaganda but for not admitting it was propaganda) is muddling things, and if people want a wider discussion on just these type of works then that'd be something worth having. However, if the goal is ultimately to make the CM thread mesh better with the rest of the site, then those examples can't be banned unless the site does too.

And again, in most of these works nobody will apply anyway, such as because the evil is attributed to a group and not an individual, because the HS is too high, or in the "tastless gore" variety, because the villain has no characterization to speak of.

Basically, I don't think you guys will need to legitimately worry about having serious candidates from these works. In a vast majority of cases, it'll be obvious that the characters don't count thanks to your own criteria, not just because the work is bad.

Edit: Scientology: Yes, there was a Church of Happyology TRS thread but while I participated I can't remember what actually happened there. However, I'm not sure that referencing it by name on a random forum thread will be a big issue.

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 10th 2022 at 1:17:41 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1931: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:18:33 AM

You want to make a TRS or wiki thread or something on it. I agree that it is creating distracting issues here.

And is kinda off topic.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1932: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:23:13 AM

If no one minds I'd like to bring up a different topic. Do we want to loosen restrictions on people changing the write ups on the YMMV pages so long as the general point still comes across? I recall one person bringing this up early in the thread.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#1933: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:23:45 AM

You make an astute point, Warjay, I hadn't thought of that.

But yes, we should worry about these tropes right now.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1934: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:24:00 AM

At long as they take it to the Locked pages. So they match. Fine by me?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1935: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:26:41 AM

I'm specifically talking about when they don't match, is it a site rule that they have to match? The person that brought it up cited us disallowing changes as an example of cliquishness (not sure I agree with them though)

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#1936: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:27:46 AM

With Mir, my issue was never with alterations themselves, just that they weren’t requesting the locked entries to mirror.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1937: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:28:04 AM

I think it's agreed the text should match. Tv tropes 2.0 big plan is to ensure that when you make the a change to a a ymmv it looks the same as it's crosswicked example.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#1938: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:28:34 AM

Was the formatting changing tied to TVT overall formatting being not consistent with the CM thread's standards? That would be the one case where I'd say editors should change the entry to match accepted standards wiki-wide.

Edited by LargoQuagmire on Oct 10th 2022 at 10:29:26 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#1939: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:28:39 AM

There's no site rule, no; while the goal is to have everything crosswicked between the work and trope pages (something ya'll are better than other cleanup efforts at), having them match is a personal style choice and not enforced by any wiki rules at all. This means that there's no rule for or against making them be the same.

Granted, it's typically better for the examples to be as similar as possible because otherwise you get the cases where the text on one page is wildly different than the text on another page... my point is that this technically isn't not allowed.

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 10th 2022 at 1:29:48 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1940: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:29:35 AM

Huh. So we're in new territory?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#1941: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:29:44 AM

Yeah, I think that works. Technically at least grammar fixes can just be made on YMMV and locked thread without asking the thread, but I think it hasn't been made explicitly clear and thread culture makes people afraid to ask.

Edit: honestly, I think that the idea that the entries having to match 100% is contributing to clique-y-ness makes perfect sense, even if I didn't think of that before now

Edited by Libraryseraph on Oct 10th 2022 at 1:31:39 PM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#1942: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:30:38 AM

Yeah, I have seen several crosswicked entries that are written completely differently.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#1943: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:31:47 AM

I remember I made an accuracy fix on one example once while not paying attention and then realized "d'aw shit, now I gotta sprint over to the thread and explain before it becomes an edit war or something". [lol] (Not that anyone cared, the response was basically "cool, we'll update the sandbox too")

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#1944: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:32:42 AM

Yeah, we need to make it abundantly clear that that's perfectly acceptable and noone should feel obligated to sprint over to get absolution from the thread

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1945: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:35:15 AM

Well at least for now. I know the eventual 2.0 (in a long ass time) will render that not needed.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 10th 2022 at 10:35:41 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#1946: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:35:59 AM

Yeah, I didn't think it'd actually be a problem but once I realized I had changed a CM entry I did have a moment of "oh no could I get in trouble for this?". Making things more relaxed will at least help in cases like mine, where things are altered as part of a routine page cleanup and it's not immediately realized that the example isn't just any other trope.

Or we can just say that once it's on the YMMV page it's fair game, with the only stipulation being that people can't cut it, add new characters, or change it so much that the information is lost.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1947: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:36:47 AM

I personally think that full fledged rewrites should still go through the thread as part of curation (just because we’ve had incidents like when the RWBY page was first made and someone tried to give Cinder a seven-paragraph entry, which is… not necessary lol) but tweaks and re-wordings would be fine with me

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Oct 10th 2022 at 1:37:18 PM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#1948: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:37:03 AM

[up][up] works for me.

[up] I mean, we also can clean that up after the fact.

Also mir, I see what you mean, but planning for 2.0 is kind of like basing your life plans around winning the lottery tongue

Edited by Libraryseraph on Oct 10th 2022 at 1:38:11 PM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1949: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:37:03 AM

And you know if their is an actual inaccuracy they come to the thread and fix it.

Edit: Obviously as a friendly encouragement.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 10th 2022 at 10:38:56 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#1950: Oct 10th 2022 at 10:38:52 AM

From what I recall in my example one of the characters was given the wrong name or a character got confused with another or something. It didn't change the overall point, it was just "hey it was this character not this character". An inaccuracy but not a massive one.

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 10th 2022 at 1:39:19 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

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