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STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#5176: Aug 25th 2023 at 3:41:35 PM

As I said there, I’m cool either way as long as someone can vouch for it and do the write up. I know that while proposals are fun, they can be a hassle if we’re just doing them to rewrite something, so if someone wants to just rewrite it as long as they can vouch for it I’m cool with that

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#5177: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:02:31 PM

I'm of two minds on this. One one hand repeat proposals takes up time that could be spent on new candidates (especially given the limits on how many active proposals a troper can have and how many can be posted within and hour and on a page). On the other hand the policy for ban evaders is to remove their edits which, imo, kind of extends to edits done through a thread.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#5178: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:04:56 PM

I think I’ve figured out where I want to lie on this question. I’ve seen some mods go back and forth over whether or not proposals from ban evaders get thumped on sight - sometimes it has, others it hasn’t. Is there a consistent policy there? If a ban evaders proposals get thumped, then we should probably repropose, but if they don’t, then I’m cool with someone just vouching for it and rewriting.

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#5179: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:07:32 PM

None of us follow the CM/MB threads closely and I don't recall seeing any hollers about proposals from banned users. I don't see anything inconsistent personally as I don't know if this something that has been discussed or not. I don't recall thumping a ban evaders proposal.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 25th 2023 at 7:11:55 AM

Macron's notes
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#5180: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:10:24 PM

It’s admittedly been a while since I’ve seen it happen but I have seen it happen before. Do mods have any input on if that’s something worth hollering or if we should just leave it alone? I’m not trying to imply anything here or say that things have been inconsistent, I’m genuinely curious cause it changes my stance on the ban evader rewrite issue

[down][down]Got it. In that case, I’ll go ahead and vote that they should be re-proposed. Thanks so much for the input!

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 25th 2023 at 7:15:57 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#5181: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:12:19 PM

From my memory the thumps only really happen if it's a recent post people are still talking about which isn't the case here.

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#5182: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:13:58 PM

I am ambivalent about ban evader proposals being thumped. I think people can just disregard the proposals and if the proposal is still being talked about, mod action might be warranted.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 25th 2023 at 7:14:45 AM

Macron's notes
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#5183: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:14:44 PM

Personally, kind of leaning towards a troper taking over the entry rather than redoing the proposal. But that is just my opinion especially if someone else can vouch for the entry.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5184: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:22:15 PM

If the effortpost hasn't been thumped, I could go either way.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5185: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:23:49 PM

Technically with other edits if the example is accurate we just rewrite it. I don't see a need to go through the whole process unless there are factual concerns with the characters. You may be able to get away with just redoing the entries themselves.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#5186: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:24:26 PM

Personally I am for leaving choice up to individual troper.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#5187: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:25:10 PM

I think the logic here is that a ban evader isn’t somebody to be trusted on the facts - and for the ban evaders we tend to deal with, I’m kinda inclined to agree. After thinking it over more I think it probably just makes sense to repropose (keeping in mind that it no longer means the person has to remake the EP - it can be an informal proposal)

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#5188: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:33:56 PM

Mainly I feel that if the other trustful user can verify that the evader's information was factual, wouldn't be really for a reproposal since that'd take up time and space for more newer proposals. I guess it could be up to a user's choice to make an informal EP if they really want to.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5189: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:38:41 PM

I have no issues with that really, especially if accuracy is a concern. It just feels like in some cases you don't need to bother, if you can garuantee it to be accurate already. Whatever works best though.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#5190: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:50:39 PM

I do think a reproposal may bring up things the original proposal missed FWIW.

[down] Any pertinent info the original effortpost left out.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 25th 2023 at 8:00:13 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#5192: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:55:49 PM

Technically speaking, entry approval is considered a collaborative effort (which is why edit-banned users can still propose candidates afaik), so simply rewriting entries that someone can vouch for is consistent with that policy and generally time efficient.

That said, whoever does the vouching should be responsible for the rewrite and put their name on the "by user" sandbox. Said voucher should also speak with certainty, and not just "been a while, but pretty sure they count".

If this proves to cause problems, then obviously reassess lol.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#5193: Aug 25th 2023 at 6:12:34 PM

Without contextualizing anything on the threads related to specific candidates by name, I think Tropers who've seen/read the work rewriting a ban evader's entries is probably the preferable option to doing another EP and vote. It'd probably be a case-by-case basis either way. In some cases, an EP may be warranted anyway—though probably in the case of a potentially contentious candidate regardless of how strong/weak the vote was.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#5194: Aug 25th 2023 at 6:19:51 PM

Okay so I've seen that one of our goers was a ban evaders and we are discussing what to do about the candidates that ban invaders have gotten approved and written up.

My opinion and this is only my opinion regarding Agent's options, I think I'd chose be to chose option two "someone else who watched the work vouch for it and just do a rewrite instead" as it may cause more unnecessary work especially since the if the new EP may read similar to the old one.

Of course as I mentioned this is simply my opinion on it should be entirely up to the troopers themselves who've seen the work that the ban evader had proposed and approved their candidates from on if the want to do an EP or just vouch for the candidate and go straight to a rewrite.

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 25th 2023 at 9:27:04 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#5195: Aug 25th 2023 at 6:25:41 PM

I do want to clarify that I'm okay with the thread voting to take down and re-propose if they feel iffy in any way.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#5196: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:03:47 PM

I think my problem is that a lot of ban-evaders in the cm and mb threads are obsessed with these tropes in ways that make them hard to trust, other people might feel differently but I tend to mistrust a ban evader's candidate until it's been fully reproposed

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#5197: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:23:29 PM

I mean, sure, makes sense. I just think that if another troper is familiar with the work, they can either do an informal proposal, or simply edit the entry in their own words. My only issue is when remade EPs take full priority when there would be other candidates to discuss. Like some are obsessed with CM and MB, that is to be expected, but I am sure we would find that the troper who verifies the information the ban evader provided would be more trustworthy ergo that lessens some tension.

ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#5198: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:27:33 PM

This does lead to the question of determining who we consider trustworthy without reopening insularity issues that got the threads closed in the first place.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#5199: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:30:59 PM

I do think there’s a bit of a difference between an insular culture that considers outsiders untrustworthy vs. agreeing that someone willing to pathologically fuck us over in the way ban evaders always seem to do doesn’t deserve any inherent trust

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 25th 2023 at 11:33:35 AM

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#5200: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:40:01 PM

Well, if ban evader additions (besides TLP drafts and tropes) on the wiki are generally considered invalid or at the very least subject to heavy scrutiny, disregarding ban evader proposals is just an extension of that.

Macron's notes

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