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miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4351: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:18:15 AM

[up][up][up]This is the same mod team that banned someone for talking behind their backs on this same topic and to make an example of someone . They've also stone walled us multiple times whenever we ask questions and only give them weeks later.

Because if the idea is to create a non toxic or Cliquish atmosphere. That's quite a choice to create a system of fear like their doing ?

Edited by miraculous on Jan 9th 2023 at 9:18:53 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#4352: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:20:56 AM

Yeah this whole “we’re locking the approval threads so everyone will branch” just seems meaningless and repeating itself. I’m already editing pages that have nothing to do with the CM and MB tropes even before the threads got locked and this comment by the mods if just a slap to the face. I can almost guarantee that this will not attract newcomers to work on the CM and MB threads

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#4353: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:20:58 AM

[up][up] I could go on for a long time about our perceived cliquishness vis a vis the cliquishness of the mods themselves, but that's neither here nor there. Go the the moderation thread for those kinds of complaints.

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 9th 2023 at 10:21:19 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#4354: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:21:40 AM

This is no longer "we want to see improvements on thread behavior, clique concerns, and creating a more welcoming environment". This is now trying to strongarm dozens of people into participating in areas they might not even care about, with the vague hope that they'll be able to one day get back to contributing in a fashion they enjoy. Is that the type of site I want to be contributing to? I and others have started questioning that.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4355: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:31:02 AM

[up][up]I posted their.

If I didn't. Well probably not get a new response for weeks.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Gotta love Jaws!
#4356: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:33:24 AM

I will also say, like others have pointed out, funneling people into areas they aren't knowledgable on and/or do not care about will objectively compromise the quality of those areas of the wiki. Is that really what anybody wants here?

"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#4357: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:41:44 AM

Yeah, as someone who does a fair bit of TRS dewicking, I would rather people not participate in TRS if they're being forced to

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4358: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:42:59 AM

Same with a guy who takes part in P5. Forcing people into these areas just causes bad work and issues to pop up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#4359: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:51:04 AM

If I pop into a bunch of threads completely new to me and it's clear I'm only doing so to "rack up my forum participation elsewhere", I'm fairly certain it would just get met with annoyance from the local thread goers over my unfamiliarity and/or lack of enthusiasm. It's not fair to both the CM/MB regs to engage in forced participation, or to the local thread goers of these other threads to deal with this influx of newbies they'd have to then waste time in educating.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#4360: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:54:28 AM

I just post wherever I feel my input is valuable, or if I need input on something.

nintendude101 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#4361: Jan 9th 2023 at 9:57:12 AM

[up][up] Agree one hundred percent. I'm not just gonna stumble into some random thread I know nothing about just to get hope on the one I actually care about to open again.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#4362: Jan 9th 2023 at 10:05:18 AM

Unless something attracts my interest here again, and at the risk of repeating others' statements here, consider this my only message here. I'm going to brush over my own participation to other aspects of the site — having joined in 2017 and only joining these threads two years later.

But all in all, contributing to places we're unfamiliar with in the hopes of getting the places we care about back is, frankly speaking, a disservice to all. To elaborate further on my point, I'm not going to explain in detail on why it's a disservice to the regular CM/MB thread goers because the other messages summed it up better than I.

  • A disservice to those who actually care about these places and have to deal with other unenthusiastic and inexperienced people coming to their place.

  • A disservice to the site, meant to list examples and here we are closing access to tropes that, like almost every trope here, use examples.

  • A disservice to the tropes as a result as well.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#4363: Jan 9th 2023 at 10:15:40 AM

I am too disappointed in the statement from the mods. We are willing to listen to issues they have and improve from that but if the only problem is that some people aren't active outside of the thread then that isn't a good reason to prevent a major trope on the site from getting used. I am honestly tempted to just quit TV Tropes as well, I have other sites I am active on I have been sticking around TV Tropes because I do genuinely enjoy other places of the site, I like making work pages and have made quite a few, I enjoy editing pages, I enjoy posting on the forums, but if none of that is going to do anything what is the point.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#4364: Jan 9th 2023 at 10:18:17 AM

The other problem was many things weren't actually followed with examples etc. I.E. Example Indentation was an issue at the time. I forget what was all listed, but those do matter too.

I agree the whole branching out things makes no sense. People have done that anyway, so it seems fruitless to mention.

At least, if it's a new rule in general for all cleanup threads, please explain the reasons behind it. It's not fair to only apply it to these threads, though.

Shadow?
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#4365: Jan 9th 2023 at 10:21:52 AM

At best, we could make (yet another) sandbox for works with C Ms / M Bs that don't have pages yet but it might be redundant with List of Shows That Need Summary.

Edited by Silverblade2 on Jan 9th 2023 at 7:47:00 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#4366: Jan 9th 2023 at 10:34:01 AM

Then they can enforce entries to hit criteria. Know what’s not fair? Mods putting them up for years only to do this

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#4367: Jan 9th 2023 at 10:35:44 AM

I haven't really commented here for a while, but I'm kind of disappointed by the "participate in other parts of the wiki" as well. I get encouraging such a thing but requiring it is weird. Speaking personally I am part of several other clean up efforts regularly, edit things that has nothing to do with CM/MB, and often take part in other forums. The big thing is that I chose to do this in comparison I feel requiring it is unfair. Especially after all of the work and progress we have made.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#4368: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:17:11 AM

Part of the problem is that we lack the tools to fix an "insular, unfriendly culture" except by a) shutting down the threads for good, b) banning everybody involved and c) simply ignoring the issue. The request to partake in other discussions is kinda the least worst option of these.

While I appreciate the effort to change the rules and the like, it's not likely to be sufficient - such cultural problems tend to be a matter of who takes part, not of what the rules say. And, personally, I think the reservations thing is a problem.

We are discussing a date for the reopening of the proposals thread right now.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#4369: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:21:55 AM

Cool, so we don’t even get a chance to prove that we’ve changed, even though you gave the cleanup a chance and we’ve already shown that we can treat newbies better there. Great call, guys - locking the threads, leaving us to make protocols to try to fix the problem with an extreme lack of communication of what you actually want, and then just ignoring any of the results.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 9th 2023 at 2:23:08 PM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#4370: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:23:59 AM

We did reopen the cleanup threads ... ?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#4371: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:24:22 AM

Soooo the issue is no longer "we have a problem with how the threads are run" as it was originally advertised, it's now "we have a problem with the people who use the threads and one of the things we consider a possible solution for fixing it would be to ban everyone involved."

This kind of stuff ain't helping the issues that have been brought up for weeks over on the Discussion about Mods thread, folks.

Edited by Ravok on Jan 9th 2023 at 11:24:57 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#4372: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:24:35 AM

I said that, pretty clearly in fact - I was saying that you gave the cleanups a chance and I like to think we’ve proven that we can be better there, but you’re not doing the same here for some reason, and in the process you’re just disregarding all of the discussion that you asked for in the first place

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jan 9th 2023 at 2:33:56 PM

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#4373: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:25:15 AM

...At the risk of getting thumped, does anyone else feel like being given such a nebulous problem as "being too much like a clique" is part of the issue at hand? At what point do we qualify as "clique" or not? How are you even supposed to quantify that, much less evaluate if it is still a problem?

I'm sorry, it's just it feels like the mods have always been vague with that, because the idea itself is whishiwashi and I'll defined...

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#4374: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:25:58 AM

Yeah, Ravok put it well. This is very confusing what the issue actually is.

Shadow?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#4375: Jan 9th 2023 at 11:26:36 AM

Part of the problem is that we lack the tools to fix an "insular, unfriendly culture" except by a) shutting down the threads for good, b) banning everybody involved and c) simply ignoring the issue. The request to partake in other discussions is kinda the least worst option of these.

Wasn't that what the open process for the current threads supposed to be?

While I appreciate the effort to change the rules and the like, it's not likely to be sufficient - such cultural problems tend to be a matter of who takes part, not of what the rules say. And, personally, I think the reservations thing is a problem.

You know what's a bigger problem? The closed, insular nature of the mods. Particularly, Septimus, you personally helping to shield Fighteer for years and not speaking up about his abuses and bigotry. You personally not doing your due diligence to not kick a Nazi off the board and giving him cover of how to avoid detection. Saying "maybe I could've done more" is no excuse. You've given no indication you even understand the problems raised and have offered no solutions to do better. It's the absolute bare minimum.

If there are "cultural problems" with us, it's moreso for the mods. And maybe that's a result of who's taking part. People who shielded abusive colleagues from consequences should have less power. People who give cover to holocaust deniers, likewise.

You guys can't even address these reasonable criticisms without committee meetings. It's absolutely concerning.

We are discussing a date for the reopening of the proposals thread right now.

Now tell us what you're doing to address the rest, please.

This is absurd. After you abuse your power to suspend a user for complaining about you in private (and you were responding to him in EB), you try what's frankly a less than stellar excuse about "culture," ignore all our efforts and obscure the issues.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 9th 2023 at 11:28:25 AM


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