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Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#3826: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:10:51 PM

[up] According to the old content policy page, examples from cut works may be kept.

Q: What do we do with examples from cut works?
A: We keep non-problematic examples from P5-cut works. If there are questions about the example, ask here.

Changing the namespace of the example and nothing else would imply that the character comes from the anime.

Edited by Twiddler on Nov 27th 2022 at 4:11:01 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3827: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:12:45 PM

Could you move this question over to the P5?

This thread is meant to talk about the behaviour of the threads inhabitants. Were not meant as an actual cleanup thread?

Actual P5 decisions like that are better in that forum.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3828: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:13:38 PM

The P5 decision was already made.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3829: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:29:30 PM

This is the kind of reason that I feel like we should at least reopen the cleanup thread to some extent. I do understand that there are problems that need addressing and I do agree but nearly all types of cleanup on the tropes have been completely stalled. This is causing quite some problems as new examples keep getting delayed from works that have long been released, cleanup on major stuff is unable to happen like we bad example rewrites and more.

At this point I am honestly not sure what else we are supposed to do.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3830: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:32:29 PM

Eh? I see people taking CM cleanup issues to the locked pages thread constantly.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3831: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:46:50 PM

That is true. But I also have things like a villain I got up, Entity 01, who doesn't count anymore due to recent reveals that I am unable to cut due to this thing happening. Like I don't think that it is any more productive to force bad examples to stay up due to the threads being locked.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3832: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:49:33 PM

Do the discussions have to be on the cleanup thread? Like it can't be discussed on a discussion page or something in the meantime? The vetting needs to go through the thread, sure, but I'm not convinced that a necessary cut discussion actually has to wait for a cleanup thread to open first.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3833: Nov 27th 2022 at 4:52:50 PM

As of now, they do. It was a long-standing rule I think from the mods that all discussion about cutting and adding examples needs to go through the cleanup thread, which nobody can access anymore.

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#3834: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:01:14 PM

And this is absolutely why I am getting tired of waiting for the mods to make a decision regarding the cleanup threads. Not because of any new potential entires, mind you, but because of the fact that they aren't able to qualify anymore thanks to certain factors.

Eh, good enough.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3835: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:02:27 PM

Well, there's no better time for that rule to be done away with, is there? The situation that forced that rule is a different situation than we currently have today, and there is no good reason to hold off on any cleanup discussion just because the threads aren't open.

I understand if you want a mod go ahead, however, considering the insular nature of the threads is the main thing the mods want fixed, I can't imagine they'd keep that rule anyway.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 27th 2022 at 8:03:09 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3836: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:04:58 PM

@war: I know that. I just don't like thus thread being used as a backup cleanup thread. So am asking he take his question their.

[up]Wouldnt this cause an issue though of people ignoring old discussions to remove a character. Plus it makes it harder to track what got cut for what or if it was valid at all without at least going onto the thread. Like the whole reason these pages are permanently locked is to ensure people can't just add or delete something without consensus

Edited by miraculous on Nov 27th 2022 at 5:07:44 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3837: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:09:05 PM

Oh, my point wasn't to use this thread as a cleanup thread, I was suggesting more to use a discussion page or something. Edit: Oh you meant the p5 stuff, yeah I agree this wasn't a question for this thread.

And I'm also not saying that cut discussions shouldn't take place on the thread when they're open; obviously that's the entire point of a cleanup thread. The point though is that waiting around for the threads to re-open doesn't seem necessary; cleanup is cleanup, even if the "proper venue" isn't currently available.

Basically what I'm just saying is that there shouldn't be harm in taking cleanup discussions to other venues while the threads are still closed. Once the threads are open, obviously people will be expected to post there, but only to the same extent that they're expected to go on other cleanup threads (i.e, when the cleanup effort actually needs some discussion and isn't just a minor thing).

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 27th 2022 at 8:09:46 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3838: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:13:56 PM

If I did that the cut discussion would get no actual discussion and I would get into an edit war with people who think that what I did wasn't valid.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3839: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:44:53 PM

I mean, a large chunk of this discussion was predicated on the fact that finding old discussions was nigh-impossible and that was while they were all concentrated into one place. Spreading out the resulting discussions right now is only asking for more problems down the line in my opinion

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3840: Nov 27th 2022 at 5:50:52 PM

Well, the issue was that the discussions weren't linked or anything. Obviously in this scenario it would be...

Look, ya'll don't have to do it, I'm just saying that it's possible to have the cleanup begin without the thread itself if you all really want to try.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3841: Nov 27th 2022 at 6:04:30 PM

I mean, it also says at the top “there will be no further additions or edits to either trope” - that sounds like a pretty official “don’t do it” to me

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3842: Nov 27th 2022 at 6:06:23 PM

But people have been requesting cleanup edits in locked pages for weeks now, and the mods have been doing them, so...

By "edits", I don't think they mean cleanup, I think they mean TRS changes like people were trying to propose earlier.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#3843: Nov 27th 2022 at 6:40:01 PM

People have been going to the locked pages thread to do cleanup edits after we (mods) told them it was fine. The locked page edits falls under the "except to facilitate other cleanup threads" exception in the description. Also, yes, new examples and TRS level overhauls aren't allowed.

Macron's notes
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3844: Nov 28th 2022 at 3:29:58 AM

So I'm a bit confused: Are we allowed to cut examples that are no longer valid?

Also, while I'm here, a question: I remember awhile back we were told to make sure the Sandboxes (like, say, Sandbox.Monster Web Animation) didn't do indexing, so we added [.index]. If we go do the page type and uncheck the "does indexing", would that work instead? Or do we still need to have the period before index?

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#3845: Nov 28th 2022 at 7:46:46 AM

I'm going to make the assumption that we can cut stuff that no longer counts by making a request at the Locked Pages thread, but not to add stuff from works that have come out during October, but I'd like to get more clarification and not rely on an assumption.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#3846: Nov 28th 2022 at 7:59:32 AM

I think we're just at "there will be no additions or cuts at this time" which I think is for the best if the threads are closed, adding or cutting is something that should require discussion and approval

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3847: Nov 28th 2022 at 8:01:53 AM

Yeah, so far its better to wait until the thread is opened. I recommend saving proposals, edits and cuts on a text archive

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 28th 2022 at 11:02:04 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#3848: Nov 28th 2022 at 8:02:48 AM

I'm with Agent and Kazuya

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3849: Nov 28th 2022 at 8:16:16 AM

I also agree (though any chance the cleanup threads at least could be opened?).

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3850: Nov 28th 2022 at 10:04:03 AM

Also, while I'm here, a question: I remember awhile back we were told to make sure the Sandboxes (like, say, Sandbox.Monster Web Animation) didn't do indexing, so we added [.index]. If we go do the page type and uncheck the "does indexing", would that work instead? Or do we still need to have the period before index?

Wait, why didn't you just remove the index tags? Why put a period there instead of just cutting them?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

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