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Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#3401: Oct 30th 2022 at 12:41:01 PM

To be fair, it makes more sense to move them after the new threads are made. Right now they're being used to direct people to this discussion. And the mods haven't actually locked this thread or declared new threads were being made, so it's an active discussion. The wait makes sense at the moment, imo.

Shadow?
Rhino8888 from Spain Since: Mar, 2020
#3402: Oct 30th 2022 at 3:34:59 PM

Someone removed the magnificent bastard entry for Diane Foxington in the YMMV for The Bad Guys simply saying "That is not Magnificent Bastard is about." Since we have these threads on hiatus and so we can’t argue about it now, should we just put it back?

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#3403: Oct 30th 2022 at 3:37:47 PM

Sent a notifier for unilateral changes.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#3404: Oct 30th 2022 at 3:48:23 PM

Question; I am popping here to ask; will threads be unlocked? Or brand new threads? Also, will we continue to discuss new CM entries? Just asking because I almost haven't participated (real life got so much in the way).

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#3405: Oct 30th 2022 at 3:51:00 PM

The old threads are staying locked and we're making 4 new threads, 2 for Effort Posts and write ups, and 2 for cleanup (rewrites, cuts, quotes etc)

[down]Yes in total, a CM effort post thread, an MB effort post thread, a CM cleanup thread, and an MB cleanup thread

Edited by papyru30 on Oct 30th 2022 at 4:59:35 AM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#3406: Oct 30th 2022 at 3:53:25 PM

Makes sense; so I take one thread will be a cleanup, and the other one will be for new candidates?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3407: Oct 31st 2022 at 6:07:08 AM

Okay, I did my culling of the Discussion Dates pages. MB is now 34, and CM is now 108. Important: I did NOT look at how far the date was into the future, or how many reservations each troper has. As long as there was A date (or at least a month) or it was labeled as "ongoing", I kept it.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#3408: Oct 31st 2022 at 6:09:21 AM

Great work, W.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3409: Oct 31st 2022 at 6:17:11 AM

Another thing: I did NOT check to see if works that were labeled as TBA actually had dates, so if they do, feel free to re-add them.

MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#3410: Oct 31st 2022 at 7:16:08 AM

I kinda love that the total edits for Complete Monster Discussion Dates is 6919. LOL, 69 and all that.

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#3411: Oct 31st 2022 at 9:00:29 AM

I’m gonna add unnatural 2022 and riddler year one into ongoing since I claimed them a while and they’re already out, should’ve edited that

Edited by Mediawatcher on Oct 31st 2022 at 9:01:05 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#3413: Oct 31st 2022 at 10:35:14 AM

Pages behind, but I think if we were to create a sandbox to keep track of the number or specific works that each Troper has reserved, that could be beneficial.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#3414: Oct 31st 2022 at 10:41:21 AM

I mean, someone can just CTRL-F at the reservations pages.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#3415: Oct 31st 2022 at 11:39:28 AM

Yeah I feel like we should be avoiding more sandboxes if possible

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3416: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:05:40 PM

Yeah, we can use the dates page

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#3417: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:24:31 PM

I have a concern about a common writing pattern I see repeated a lot in Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard examples. I've noticed that a lot of them make heavy use of "Doing X, the character does Y." Take this example, from MagnificentBastard.Predator:

  • 1987 film: The Predator itself is a dangerous, cunning and honourable warrior. Hunting in Republic of Val Verde during a Guerrilla War, the Predator stalked and killed numerous insurgents and elite forces, including a band of Green Berets. Cautiously hunting Dutch's group, it picked them off one by one as they split up, careful not to let itself be outnumbered even with its superior technology. Avoiding their first trap, they eventually catch it in a net, which it escapes by firing its Plasmacaster rapidly. Feigning ignorance of Mac and Dillon's presence when they pursue it, the Predator turns the tables and kills them both. Finally confronting Dutch, whom had figured out how to exploit the Predator's thermal imaging tech, the creature is so impressed that, even when it had Dutch in its clutches, it lets him go and disarms itself to fight him unarmed. The hunter is finally beaten when it falls into a trap Dutch had set and only because Dutch made two traps. Noble and terrifying, the Predator hunts for sport, will not go after those it doesn't consider a threat and is an alien icon that spawned an entire franchise.

5 out of 8 sentences in that writeup follow that template. In some cases, the result ends up reading awkwardly: "Avoiding their first trap, they eventually catch it in a net" looks like it's describing the heroes avoiding the Predator's trap, when it's actually the other way around. A much clearer way to get the point across would be "The Predator successfully avoids their first trap, and though it gets caught by their second one, it manages to escape by firing its Plasmacaster rapidly."

Another problem I have with this wording is that when I read it, I imagine that the X and Y are being done simultaneously, but oftentimes, the Y happens after X. "Hunting in Republic of Val Verde during a Guerrilla War, the Predator stalked and killed numerous insurgents and elite forces" works, because the stalking and killing of insurgents and elite forces happens in the process of hunting in Val Verde. The aforementioned "Avoiding their first trap" sentence doesn't, because he only gets caught in the net after having avoided the first trap.

I hope I'm making sense here. I'm not sure what kind of rule we could write exactly to address this, if this would even be needed, but I would like to draw attention to the formulaic writing that many of that thread's regulars seem to have fallen into.

Edited by Zuxtron on Oct 31st 2022 at 8:24:52 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#3418: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:30:46 PM

[up] One thing I've noticed is a lot of at least CM entries use "would" to describe a character's actions when it's not grammatically correct

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#3419: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:33:26 PM

I mean, I think we can work case by case in that regard, Zux.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#3420: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:36:30 PM

I mean, if it ends up creating a wrong image of what actually occurs that's one thing, but I'm not sure what the issue is in principle. If it's formulaic then sure it's formulaic, but what's inherently wrong with that if the information is presented correctly?

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#3421: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:39:08 PM

It just doesn't read well. It's clunky. (So are all the entries where multiple sentences begin with the characters name or pronoun in a row)

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#3422: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:43:59 PM

I mean does it paint the entry as being inaccurate in any way, or is that just a preference? If it does not unintentionally provide an incorrect explanation, I don't see the problem.

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#3423: Oct 31st 2022 at 5:45:54 PM

One of the sentences I pointed out above ends up being confusing because of that wording, and could easily have been much clearer if it wasn't so insistent on using it as much as possible.

ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#3424: Oct 31st 2022 at 6:22:05 PM

Let me flip this around. Even if this writing style doesn't inadvertently cause confusion, isn't the wording being clunky a problem in-and-of itself? It's definitely more of a case-by-case kind of deal than anything that should be codified, but if Zuxtron or anyone else wants to reword an example to read more naturally, that's a good thing, and for everyone (myself included) who does fall into this trap, it's good to cut down on the run-on sentences.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#3425: Oct 31st 2022 at 7:23:56 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.

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