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Not Tropeworthy: An Axe To Grind

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Original post:

An Axe To Grind is, per its own laconic, about "the use of an axe as a weapon". Right out of the gate, that's very straightforward case of chairs. The description is kind of all over the place, and essentially tries to describe both the historical use of axes as weapons and all possible roles that they may be given in fiction. This helps with sorting examples, since a number of basic roles are described:

More broadly, these mostly fall into four groups:

  • Axes are used by barbaric, warlike or savage groups or people.
  • Axes are used by strong, tough people.
  • Axes are both a weapon and a tool and used by people who also use them for something else, or who need to improvise.
  • Axes are used by certain cultural groups.

Now, for the examples.

    On-Page 

Anime/Manga

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Animated Film

Live-Action Film

Literature

Live-Action TV

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Mythology & Religion

  • Thor with an axe.
  • Just axes.
  • Just axes.

Pinball

Podcasts]

Professional Wrestling

  • Executioner's axe.
  • Just axes.
  • Just axes.

Tabletop Games

Theme Parks

Toys

Video Games

Visual Novels

Webcomics

Web Original

Western Animation

  • Dwarves with axes: 16/562 (2.8%)
  • Orcs with axes: 6/562 (1.1%)
  • Minotaurs with axes: 2/562 (.4%)
Collected Fantastic Race Weapon Affinity examples: 24/262 (9.2%)
  • Vikings with axes: 23/562 (4.1%)
  • Berserkers with axes: 4/562 (.7%)
  • Generic barbarians with axes: 15/562 (2.7%)
Collected barbarian examples, also counting orcs: 48/562 (8.5%)
  • Big Guys/Mighty Glaciers with axes: 7/562 (1.2%)
  • Executioners with axes: 6/562 (1%)
  • Improvised-weapon axes: 24/562 (9.2%)
  • Lumberjacks with axes: 2/562 (.4%)
  • Axe murderers: 39/562 (6.9%)
  • ZCEs: 31/562 (5.5%)
  • Just axes: 378/562 (67.3%)

Edit: Added an inbound check.

    Off-Page 

  • Axes exist: 40/75 (53.3%)
  • ZCEs: 28/75 (37.3%)
  • Axe murderers: 3/75 (4%)
  • Barbarians use axes: 2/75 (2.7%)
  • Giants with axes: 2/75 (2.7%)
  • Executioner's axes: 1/75 (1.3%)

The results are if anything more extreme; chairs and ZCEs strongly dominate this list.

This page as it currently is doesn't have an identity other than "axes exist", which isn't a trope. I don't think that it's worth keeping outside of a disambig. However, there are a few more or less clear patterns within it, whose examples can either be reassigned to other tropes we already have or extracted as new ones. Specifically:

  • Examples where someone grabs a random wood axe as an improvised weapon can be moved to, well, Improvised Weapon.
  • The dwarf with axes/orc with axes examples can be moved to Fantastic Race Weapon Affinity.
  • The examples where barbaric factions, races or characters use axes can easily be collated into their own trope (Axes Of Barbarism? Barbaric Axes?)
  • Axe Murderer can probably also be made into a trope of its own.
  • It might be possible to create a trope about how Mighty Glaciers and physically imposing characters tend to use weapons like axes, hammers and maces? That would require digging through some other weapon tropes, though.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 2nd 2022 at 4:41:58 AM

themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#26: Sep 14th 2022 at 8:36:20 AM

[tup] Barbarian Battleaxe (nice alliteration BTW)

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Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
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#27: Sep 15th 2022 at 8:55:17 AM

I feel like the kinds of characters that use an axe are also just as likely to use a mace or warhammer. If it was up to me, whatever trope we choose to replace this with should also take examples from Drop The Hammer and Carry a Big Stick. The name Big Brutish Weapons came to mind.

Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Amateur Veteran
#28: Sep 15th 2022 at 9:15:14 AM

^I agree that that's definitely a trope that we should try to extract, although I also feel that the concepts of "axes are stereotypically associated with barbarians" and "big, mighty or brutish characters use axes, hammer, maces and similar strength-based weapons" are distinct enough to treat as separate tropes.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#29: Sep 15th 2022 at 9:18:28 AM

The former sounds like a natural subtrope of the latter if we end up creating both.

Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Amateur Veteran
#30: Sep 15th 2022 at 11:20:21 AM

^Hmm, probably true. Primitive Clubs might end up a subtrope of that as well.

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
#31: Sep 15th 2022 at 8:42:55 PM

I just don't think that focusing entirely on An Axe To Grind here is the right thing to do. Even if Barbarian Axe can be a thing, we should make the Super-Trope first, and I think said Super-Trope would encompass many weapon types.

But turning the thread into one about multiple other tropes might be tricky.

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#32: Sep 15th 2022 at 8:44:23 PM

It's not just "tricky", it's outright not going to happen since none of those other tropes have wick checks and all of them might need different action. It'd just be a mess of a thread with no real direction or point. (Plus we already did Knife Nut, so why not this one?)

A supertrope can be drafted in the TLP anyway without any TRS input.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 15th 2022 at 11:44:55 AM

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GastonRabbit Cake's just a shot away. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
#33: Sep 15th 2022 at 8:47:01 PM

We already have a supertrope for when weapons are involved with characterization, and it's simply called Weapon-Based Characterization. (We also have Weapon Specialization for when a character mostly sticks to a limited choice of weapon(s).)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 15th 2022 at 11:36:22 AM

You can't always get what you want.
WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#34: Sep 15th 2022 at 8:48:40 PM

...Also that. [lol]

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
GastonRabbit MOD Cake's just a shot away. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
#35: Sep 15th 2022 at 11:39:43 PM

I hooked a crowner since it's been three days. As mentioned, disambiguating and splitting are not mutually exclusive, and if we do both, any tropes that are spun off will be listed on the disambiguation page.

You can't always get what you want.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#36: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:00:22 AM

I like the crowner ideas. My one concern about an Axe Murderer trope though is that people are just going to use it as "any time a person uses an axe to kill someone" which...is technically true, but is not what the trope is trying to cover. Think warriors in a battlefield/war or fighting game characters, who I'm assuming the trope wouldn't include.

I guess my question is how do we define "murderer" to avoid shoehorning in examples of "character A uses an axe and kills someone with it" but isn't characterized In-Universe as a murderer? I could see it degrading into another chairs magnet if we aren't careful.

Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 16th 2022 at 3:01:20 PM

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#37: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:06:51 AM

Any title I can think of would be confused with Axe-Crazy... But like, I guess the general idea would be something like an "Axe Wielding Psychopath" or something.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Amateur Veteran
#38: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:19:03 AM

I was thinking maybe "Axe-Wielding Serial-Killer", but "Axe-Wielding Psychopath" sounds a little more flexible without being too broad.

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#39: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:35:46 AM

that reads like they'd have to be psychotic to be the trope but not all murderers are psychopaths / not all murderers who kill with an axe are psychopathic.

unless the trope is intentionally narrowing it down to "psychotic murderers tend to wield axes"?

Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 16th 2022 at 3:36:34 PM

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#40: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:37:49 AM

I guess? That's what I feel the trope is, anyway, considering that axes are particularly brutal weapons and a character who murders with them would typically be portrayed as particularly cruel or crazy. At least, I assume that's how it'd play out.

Granted this is me trying to find a solution to your concern of "narrowing it down to avoid decay"; maybe it's too narrow, but...

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 16th 2022 at 3:38:26 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
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Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
#41: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:39:54 AM

I'd rather not use appropriated diagnostic terms if there's an alternative. Axe Murderer seems fine to me; Depraved or Gruesome Axe Murderer, maybe, if more specificity is necessary. ("Murderer" should already rule out most people who just use an axe as a combat weapon, though.)

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#42: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:45:48 AM

I mean... on one hand I totally get where you're coming from.

On the other hand, the media couldn't care less about the actual real-life disorder and psychopathy in fiction has yet to stop being portrayed as an evil / inherently dangerous thing. And we trope how fiction is, not how it should be.

What it boils down to I guess is if these characters fit Hollywood's depiction of what a psychopath is / are called psychopaths outright, or if it's more just general cruelty and brutishness. Or if I'm just narrowing the trope down, which I still admit is entirely possible.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 16th 2022 at 3:46:34 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#43: Sep 16th 2022 at 12:46:49 AM

[up][up][up] I don't think it's too narrow, or rather I think "Axe Killer/Murderer" would be too broad.

If that's how the trope will be defined (name pending per [up][up] the concerns noted here), I think it's specific enough to curb potential misuse.

And I will say, while you[up][up] might think "Murderer" would be enough to avoid shoehorning any person that kills with an axe even in settings where killing isn't illegal (like a battlefield or in a fighting game), you'd be surprised. Lots of users will take a mile if given an inch in terms of fitting in their favorite example

Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 16th 2022 at 3:47:44 PM

GastonRabbit Cake's just a shot away. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
#44: Sep 16th 2022 at 2:38:49 AM

Erm... Axe Murderer is a working title; we can still add an adjective to the beginning if not having an adjective there would make it sound too broad. As it says on the crowner, the two split ideas would have their names decided with separate crowners.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 16th 2022 at 4:39:58 AM

You can't always get what you want.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#45: Sep 16th 2022 at 2:55:52 AM

[up]the issue I had wasn't with the name, but that a simple idea like "axe murderer" could be easily misconstrued / misused to shoehorn any person who uses an axe and kills someone if we didn't have a solid definition, i.e. a similar issue we have with this trope now.

Basically, I wanted to make sure we weren't just going to end up relocating the issue to another trope

Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 16th 2022 at 5:58:36 AM

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
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#46: Sep 16th 2022 at 8:03:06 AM

Regarding the proposed Axe Murderer trope, I also feel like it could be a broader trope about multiple weapon types. Something like Stock Slasher Weapons or Stock Serial Killer Weapons that also encompasses Psycho Knife Nut (I wish I had though of this during that TRS thread), Machete Mayhem, Chainsaw Good, and probably certain other weapons that I'm forgetting. All of these weapons carry a similar meaning.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#47: Sep 16th 2022 at 8:08:28 AM

I'd consider Stock Slasher Weapons.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit Cake's just a shot away. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
#48: Sep 16th 2022 at 4:25:15 PM

I added a new option regarding how broad the murderer trope should be. I would have changed the existing crowner entry, but it has too many votes to do that at this point.

I'll bump the ATT query and edit it to mention the new option.

You can't always get what you want.
GastonRabbit MOD Cake's just a shot away. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
#49: Sep 16th 2022 at 4:26:36 PM

I think I'll let this crowner run for five days instead of three to give the new option a bit more time, so the 20th is the soonest it'll be called.

You can't always get what you want.
PyreneesLover1 Since: Sep, 2022
#50: Sep 16th 2022 at 7:06:20 PM

I thought axe to grind meant a complaint or dispute with someone or it could be used as a selfish way of doing or saying something. This trope should have had nothing whatsoever to deal with a killer who uses an axe to kill somebody or because somebody wields a badass looking axe if my definition or thinking is correct.

Trope Repair Shop: An Axe to Grind
18th Sep '22 6:22:51 PM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to make a supertrope for stock slasher weapons in general instead of just axes, as well as a trope for the use of axes by barbaric/barbarian characters. Should an axe-specific subtrope of the slasher weapon trope be split off as well, with the supertrope being exampleless due to the existence of other subtropes (such as Psycho Knife Nut), and should the trope for barbaric/barbarian axes allow weapons other than axes? The names would be decided with separate crowners. If the option for the axe murder trope does not have consensus, the supertrope will not be exampleless and the previously established consensus for that trope will still stand.

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