I'm pretty sure they didnt go that direction because that is not actually supposed to be a real story theme. The story around the New Republic is still pretty muddled, since a lot of it was very blatantly just quick excuses to justify the plot of the Sequel Trilogy being Rebels vs Empire 2.0.
I still don't think this particular example is a good example of the NR's competence.
Could the captain done other things than try to personally arrest what he thought were a bunch of impostors? Sure.
But it doesn't make him an idiot or massively incompetent like some people here are arguing. "Okay, this is clearly a ruse and we're gonna call their bluff" is the kind of decision-making that would have worked under normal circumstances - but the captain had the misfortune of encountering the plot.
We do have actual examples of the NR's incompetence in this series, like the fact that nobody made sure oneo fheir major shipyards wasn't crawling with Imperial sympathisers.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 27th 2023 at 4:19:13 PM
We learn from history that we do not learn from historySo he can arrest them and chuck them into one of the cells on his, you know, prison ship?
I'd also like to point out that "pretend to be somebody else and get your bluff called" is something that has repeatedly gone wrong for Star Wars protagonists before as well.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 27th 2023 at 4:21:50 PM
We learn from history that we do not learn from history![]()
Sure, but they pretend to be someone who's expected (storm troopers, usually) and should be there. Someone who's pretending to be Jedi is an announcement that they aren't trying to be subtle, or clever. They want you to be suspicious. That could be because they want you to focus on them while another group sneaks in, it could be because they're confident they'll win the fight and want you to gather up your forces...there's lots of possibilities.
But the very fact that he recognizes it's a trap means that falling into it is less excusable, not more.
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
May not be an intended theme, but at this point they've done the 'mercy to your enemies results in betrayal' bit repeatedly?
ETA: This one's especially painful because we literally just did 'high ranking imperial is broken out of New Republic prison ship by sheer force of arms' in the 3rd season of the Mandalorian. Now, it actually post-dates this scene, despite being broadcast first (I think? timeline is pretty ambiguous) but still, at least to me, isn't great.
Edited by ECD on Aug 27th 2023 at 7:33:40 AM
Yeah absolutely that's why prison guards arrest people in real life after all. Absolutely a thing that happens.
eta: Sarcasm aside this is going round in circles. Arresting people is not the guy's job, the security of his ship is.
Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 27th 2023 at 4:14:13 PM
![]()
![]()
Exactly, He was too confident to consider a possibility of the whole situation being more dangerous than he thought it was. Frankly, I think people here are conflating making a mistake with being stupid.
As calling any mistake a sign of incredible incompetence. You cannot demand perfection. I pretty sure that are situation where his response would have been adequate. Not here, yes, but again you cannot demand perfection.
He could have done worse, like buying their disguise, for example. And we are talking a new republic here, they have engaged in blatantly stupid actions. I think we can at least recognize that he did better than all too many NR officials.
Edited by Risa123 on Aug 27th 2023 at 5:18:41 PM
Same.
While the Captain made a boneheaded incompetent decision, as its presented I don't see that as being meant to be reflective of the New Republic as a whole, rather than merely his own. Star Wars has a long and storied tradition of ship captains making stupid decisions and getting killed for it, so "he's incompetent, and also Star Wars is showing the New Republic is incompetent, so clearly his incompetence is meant to be indicative of the New Republic in general" feels like a leap.
Or in short, there isn't really anything that ties his actions to how the New Republic has been depicted as incompetent elsewhere.
Especially since when the show is being indicative of New Republic incompetence, it's actually been very clear about it: the entire Correlia segments' theme of not being aware that dangers are plotting against you right under your nose to catastrophic effect is something that actually resonates with what the canon is generally doing with the New Republic, rather than just incompetence for the sake of incompetence.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 27th 2023 at 10:06:31 AM
Yeah, I think the interpretation that the Captain was smart and savvy and only undone by the fact they were Dark Jedi which he couldn't possibly know is what the show was going for. I just don't agree that was what it showed.
It's not supposed to reflect on the NR as a whole.
Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 27th 2023 at 6:12:27 PM
![]()
I don't know what the intent was here, but I know the effect is the same as the Inquisitor being able to attack people at what is identified as 'the New Republic shipyard' and then just fly away without even being challenged, let alone shot down by the X-Wings you'd think would be guarding such a facility/planet. Which is that the New Republic come across as idiots who can't tie their shoes.
The intent, to the extent there is a singular intent is probably something like You Can't Thwart Stage One, but the effect, for me at least is, wow, the NR are pretty bad at this.
I don't see any way to know (unless someone's got an interview cite or something?) what was intended, but I agree that what's actually conveyed (to me at least) is incompetence, which no one even considers challenging (no references to standing orders about not letting anyone onto your prison transport, no disagreement, not even a 'this is reckless, even for you, sir), which causes it to reflect on the organization.
Edited by ECD on Aug 27th 2023 at 11:11:30 AM
What about we move on ? This discussion has been going on for several pages without achieving anything. So why did Sabine lose the duel so badly ? Was it about her duelling skills being rusty. They did the same with Obi-Wan in his series, after all. Or is it supposed to imply that she is just bad at it. Compared to Shin, at least. Or combination of both. Personally, I think it could be option three.
As I said, the best way to know is if it matches what the series is doing with the Republic elsewhere. If it doesn't, it's probably not meant to be part of it.
I've heard that criticism before, but I've been mostly discarding it because it's blatant Fridge Logic. People not being able to get their daring escapes off because fighter defenses are so good isn't really a thing in Star Wars.
If a character is done with their villainy or heroics and want to leave, typically they can just do so without a problem in this franchise, unless the the writers specifically want to make a fighter pursuit scene - but that isn't typical or the norm in these situations.
So it's kind of weird for it to justifiably now be a big indicator of how incompetent the New Republic is specifically when this series has never really cared about it in the first place. It's applying a level of realism to the series that generally isn't there.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 27th 2023 at 11:41:37 AM
So has Elsbeth got force powers? Or is she just knowledgeable due to her heritage?
Also, how does a descendant of Dathomir end up a landed lady of the Empire? And seemingly with some loyalty to it.
The dark jedi I can understand because Skroll seems to be in this for his own gain.
Also, is Marrok the inquisitor part of Elsbeth's company or Skroll's? I could see it go either way, depending on if (s)he is loyal more to the Empire or their Jedi heritage.
![]()
![]()
I wouldn't say she did lose that duel that badly? Obviously being impaled through the chest isn't the ideal result, she lost but she put up a reasonable fight, she wasn't just instantly slice and diced like you might expect.
I was surprised she went for the lightsaber but it's quicker to pick up that up and pursue than it is to don the Mandosuit. (Eta: I'm also really surprised she survived what looked like a hole straight through the middle of her chest and then having it waggled about a bit. It seemed to move lower down in the hospital scene. That killed Qui-Gon in short order)
But yes I would go with both, she's not nearly as powerful in the force and hasn't been practising her swordplay. There's both often a metaphysical aspect to force duels and simply force powers boost your speed/strenth/reaction times as well.
There's a reason lightsabers are almost always wielded by force users after all.
Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 27th 2023 at 7:48:22 PM
![]()
![]()
Just for clarification when I said "lost so badly" I mean the "got impaled" part and generally was on the back foot. Yes, she did "put a fight", but I expected that. She is not a Jedi youngling or fighting someone who overwhelmingly more powerful.
Well yeah, she certainly did not know that Palpatine was behind the genocide. Remember guys that we the audience know something does not mean that characters do.
You realize M Ps do, in fact, arrest people all the time. Right?
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Who was talking about Members of parliament? Look, I really was trying to drop it as asked but... Do Colonels of Military Police stop what they are doing and jeopardise their existing assignments to investigate and arrest random trouble makers? Because... I really doubt it.
![]()
Well in that sense there's no good way to lose a lightsaber duel.
Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 27th 2023 at 8:09:03 PM
Edit in regards your edit: Never mind.
Moving on: How about those E-Wings eh? Back in canon! I couldn't make out if they still have the silly third blaster gun that blocks the cockpit.
Also they seemed to get a lot of milage out of astromech humour in both episodes.
Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 27th 2023 at 8:14:50 PM

Which still relies on the idea that this is a common enough problem to be expected.
We learn from history that we do not learn from history