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VTubers Cleanup Thread

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We have determined that Lets Players are not inherently tropable. They need to provide some sort of narrative, characters, and story to be allowed on this wiki. This applies to Vtubers just as much as other content creators, but Kayfabe makes the distinction between streamer and character particularly fuzzy.

The purpose of the thread is to remove tropes from pages concerning Vtubers that apply only to the actor rather than the character.


  • If there is not a clear separation between the character and the actor, we assume that it is the actor represented, and thus they are not tropable.
    • In other words, it is up to the user writing the example to show that it pertains to the character and not the actor.
  • Regardless, the content they produce must meet our standards for Web Video, meaning substantial original and/or transformative material.
    • A vlog, review, or Let's Play does not become tropable just because the person doing it has an anime avatar.
  • Original Characters are not tropable without at least being part of a narrative work. That means there must be produced, published, creative content with that character, not merely a "backstory". Only the elements of those narrative works may be troped.

More details in this post.

For our full policy, visit our Administrivia page on Real Life Troping.


PLEASE do not argue over the guidelines here. We've been through that argument too many times and it slows the cleanup effort down. Asking if some grey area meets the guidelines is okay. Arguing that the guidelines should be changed are not. If you would like to discuss the guidelines, go to the Real-Person Troping Policy thread.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 13th 2025 at 8:42:38 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#551: Mar 19th 2023 at 9:15:19 PM

Oh jeez, here I am discussing VOMS Project again... (WARNING: JK ROWLING)

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • Pikamee have stated that she is a really sensitive person who felt insecure whenever something negative would appear on her chat. On February 7, 2023, Pikamee was forced to cancel her anticipated Hogwarts Legacy stream after being the victim of targeted bombardment, bullying and harassment both in her pre-stream chat and on Twitter due to the franchise creator's notoriety. Suffice to say, she apologized twice which was later quickly deleted as she was harassed even more before disappearing off of Twitter.
      • To provide better context. While Pikamee has been known to partake in adult or dirty toilet humor jokes. A combination of her social awkwardness, naivete and general sweet and kind personality had given her the reputation as the 'puppy dog sweetheart' of the Vtuber community. Yes. Even more so than the actual puppy dog Vtuber. Her absolute innocence around external topics outside her community as well as her incredibly relatable and sympathetic background, has made her incredibly endearing even amongst non-Vtuber watchers. So it became incredibly heartbreaking when she suffered the harassment especially when taken into account of her past trauma of being ostracised as a mix-race in Japan. Many of her fans considered her unjust treatment as a massive Kick the Dog moment. And when her graduation was announced a month after going radio-silent due to the harassment, there was a collective outpour in grief, shock, depression and anger within the wider VOMS fandom. With some feeling that the internet didn't deserve her wholesomeness.
  • Heartwarming Moments: Tomoshika and Ryugon rang in 2022 by promising each other that they would both quit smoking, even setting up a Twitter Space so they could chat with their fans and have one last cigarette together. While their punishments for relapsing are rather humorous (Tomoshika has to record herself smoking and post it online, and Ryugon has to eat a bowl of bugs, something he already does rather regularly), it's nice to know how much trust they gained in each other in such a short period of time.

RL Troping, I must say. How am I supposed to reword/remove this?

Eh, good enough.
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#552: Mar 20th 2023 at 12:35:13 AM

[up] I've been hearing Pikamee's graduation was planned since before the Hogwarts Legacy incident, so if so the announcement of it coming in the wake of her being harassed and cyberbullied would be an unfortunate bad coincidence. Not sure how or even if that can be reworded, though.

Edited by Arawn999 on Mar 20th 2023 at 12:37:05 PM

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#553: Apr 18th 2023 at 1:59:50 PM

From Nightmare Fetishist:

  • Tokino Sora of hololive is known for liking horror media and, consequently, being difficult to scare. Beyond simply liking them, she finds them comforting and sometimes listens to horror streams as a sleep aid.
As it stands, this is just real life stuff, but I believe there's a Holo No Graffiti episode that actually showcases this side of her, so we can use that to flesh this out if it's still up.

[down] Done.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Apr 18th 2023 at 4:46:16 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#554: Apr 18th 2023 at 2:02:54 PM

Well until the episode is found the example has to go.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
AnoBakaDesu Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#555: Apr 18th 2023 at 3:56:04 PM

Among the many, many examples that need to be pruned on the Nijisanji livers pages, this one for Enna stands out:

Innocent Bigot: Being a sheltered Asian who was raised in Canada, Enna was unaware of the "black people eat chicken" stereotype. When trying to imitate Kyo's voice, Enna tried to emulate "how people from the hood" talk, which was basically her trying to sound like a black person from the hood "who listened to Snoop Dog too much". When she mentioned "chicken" (which is Kyo's favorite food), Kyo ended up stopping her and he realized that Enna genuinely had no idea what she was saying with the chicken part. Enna later made a public apology for her statement and didn't want her fans to defend her mistake, as she admitted that what she did was wrong even if she didn't know about it. Prior to the chicken incident, Enna would often make Asian and Chinese jokes because she's one herself, and she also made a public apology for it because she has made them too many times.

Yes, it happened on-stream when Enna poked fun at Kyo's African-American Vernacular impression. However, the entry clearly talks about Enna's performer rather than the character.

"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#556: Apr 24th 2023 at 5:18:02 PM

Stupid Statement Dance Mix got disambiguated per TRS, so we need to figure out which example goes where. For WebAnimation.hololive:

[down] Okay, doing that. Thanks!

Edited by Berrenta on Apr 25th 2023 at 6:55:47 AM

AnoBakaDesu Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#557: Apr 24th 2023 at 7:40:03 PM

[up] These could easily fall under Voice Clip Song instead.

"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
AnoBakaDesu Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#558: Apr 27th 2023 at 3:15:26 PM

Awesome.Kson On Air needs to get sent to the cutlist. As it stands, all five examples are meta.

Also, ~Majin Akuma brought back Characters.Nijisanji Korea from the Sandbox in a very insufficient state.

"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
MajinAkuma Since: Apr, 2013
#559: Apr 27th 2023 at 4:28:03 PM

If you want to put the Korean page back to the Sandbox, I'm fine with that, but if you do that, you should also do it for the 2023 page, because that one has nothing in it.

TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#560: Apr 27th 2023 at 9:37:39 PM

[up][up]Done.

Also, I don't think any of the examples ~Berrenta listed actually count since the compositions are not official content.

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#561: May 2nd 2023 at 4:05:41 PM

Oh boy, looks like Vshojo got into some drama again, just a heads up.

Eh, good enough.
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#562: May 2nd 2023 at 4:30:50 PM

For context, Silvervale, Veibae, and Nyanners have declined to renew their contracts and will be going indie again. Veibae at least has said she did it purely for financial reasons.

Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#563: May 2nd 2023 at 5:31:37 PM

The vague comments silver made on her way out have led to a substantial amount of speculating, I speak that will be the troublemaker if anything.

On that note, should probably keep an eye on ironmouses page aswell

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#564: May 3rd 2023 at 5:23:06 AM

[up]x4 In that case, I'll need to make a mental note to take it to TRS, or at least do a sweep of Voice Clip Song after. There has been no real place for non-official instances (aside from Memetic Mutation, but a lot of cases don't even state how that applies).

I'll pull them if they aren't already.

Edit: The ones already listed there prior to my edit aren't official either.

Edit 2: Took out the whole tree and preserved it in the discussion tab.

Edited by Berrenta on May 3rd 2023 at 7:44:19 AM

TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#565: May 4th 2023 at 6:46:48 PM

Wanted to ask here before taking it to the quality control thread, is the Guns, Gore & Cannoli / hololive joint video example (the one with Hakos Baelz) kosher? It seems like it was uploaded to squeeze in the Irony example, but the thing making it ironic is Baelz's avatar (she's a rat, and the video shows the giant rat boss from the game) and not in an intentional way. Does this break the "it's not tropable just because you put an avatar over it" bullet from the OP?

In any case, it also feels like a Signal-to-Noise Train Wreck because of just how much is going on in the description and secondary tropes.

Edited by TrocyteV on May 4th 2023 at 7:11:22 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Arcorann Since: Nov, 2010
#566: May 8th 2023 at 2:01:26 AM

Looking at recent edits to Trivia.Nijisanji... my instincts tell me that we probably shouldn't be talking about all this leaked information, but my instincts are also biased, so I want a second opinion.

Edited by Arcorann on May 8th 2023 at 7:04:26 PM

TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#567: May 8th 2023 at 6:44:13 AM

From what I understand, Content Leak doesn't extend to meta content (i.e. public statements that don't involve work content), so that's not the policy to enforce here.

Our biggest concern right now is speculation from agendaposters and the fact that both Zaion/Sayu and Nijisanji are unreliable narrators.

EDIT: After reading the example on the page you mentioned, they seem valid. It properly cites both sides without taking an actual stance or giving undue weight.

Edited by TrocyteV on May 8th 2023 at 8:17:26 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Arcorann Since: Nov, 2010
#568: May 18th 2023 at 3:49:32 AM

From Animation Age Ghetto, under "Web Video":

  • hololive has cute anime-like v-tubers, but some of these v-tubers can be rather raunchy, including a horny pirate girl and a foul-mouthed dragon girl.

Probably needs a rewrite to refer to Virtual Youtubers in general, if it's even a suitable example to begin with.

Edited by Arcorann on May 18th 2023 at 11:02:04 PM

TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#569: May 18th 2023 at 8:30:25 AM

I'm not sure if VTubing even qualifies, considering I tend to hear the opposite of what the trope suggests (i.e. the idea that you can let children watch is what's surprising, even though a number of the big names are literally qualified to work with them.)

Edited by TrocyteV on May 18th 2023 at 8:31:00 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#570: May 18th 2023 at 8:41:19 AM

I think it's just misuse, or zce. Animation Age Ghetto would require saying that significant amount of people thunk vtubers are good entertainers for kids because of the artstyle.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#571: May 21st 2023 at 7:35:52 PM

Asking here before I go directly to ATT.

So I've been going back and cleaning the page for up a Hololive fanwork (The Dragon's Pizzeria) since I managed to recover most of it from the Internet Archive (previously, I thought it was lost, but I decided to check again after being asked on the matter — site policy of verifiability and all that jazz), but I ran into an interesting problem while doing so.

I'm going to omit the actual details for now since it digs into some really heavy stuff, but in chapter 2, there is a series of events that is very blatantly either Ripped from the Headlines or Reality Subtext for a very specific IRL incident, to the point where any insistence that it isn't borders on Implausible Deniability or Grey's Law. It is also my understanding that this (among other faux pases) was a major pain point in the fic's reception as well as a larger lore bible it was parented to.

The problem is that this connection (and the scene in question being cause for concern at all) comes from Mano Aloe's actress, using her current identity. ATT has stated we do not directly say "[x] is [y]" if the divide is due to privacy concerns — this varies between individual VTubers even within the same company, but Aloe is probably the straightest example of this stipulation I can think of.

If I were to point out that the scene is Ripped from the Headlines (and it's definitely an elephant in the room, due to the aforementioned reception), would I be able to describe the evidence as "Aloe's actress said [x]," or would I have to beat around the bush a bit more?

Edited by TrocyteV on May 21st 2023 at 7:41:55 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#572: May 21st 2023 at 8:27:11 PM

It's difficult to say with the question beating around the bush either. As far as I'm concerned

  • If the agency keeps roles uncredited, we can't fairly connect vtubers to other idendities. Everyone knows who Kson On Air is, but we don't say anything until she does.
  • Fanworks can really do whatever and are public material.
  • We don't have the same standards as the community.
What's the hypothetical Reality Subtext example? Is The Dragon's Pizzeria saying Delutaya and Mano Aloe are the same? Is the fic quoting something that happened behind the scenes?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#573: May 21st 2023 at 8:45:55 PM

I debated on stating it outright but just keeping it in a folder, but ended up deciding not to. That's my mistake, and I apologize.

    The material in question (CW: Topic of suicide) 
In chapter 2 of the fic, Aloe stumbles across an Identical Stranger who committed suicide by jumping from a building. Through a mixup, she winds up using their identity to continue their life with the combined emotional baggage of both individuals.

Delutaya has revealed (first in a Fanbox, then in a public stream) that she attempted suicide in the exact same manner as this person, during or shortly after the approximate timeframe this chapter of TDP corresponds to (at least a month after her IRL graduation in 2020.) Combined with that, HoloFunk 5.0.0/TDP!Aloe clearly struggling with untreated mental trauma, and some other scenes (particularly the violent beatdown of an Allegorical Character for Aloe's antis), there's overwhelming evidence that this is what chapter 2's scene is referencing.

The hypothetical Reality Subtext or Ripped from the Headlines example would thus simply be pointing out the analogues and what renders it highly unlikely to be a coincidence.

Edited by TrocyteV on May 21st 2023 at 9:52:08 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
paradisedj32 Since: Jan, 2011
#575: May 26th 2023 at 5:23:16 PM

How important is it for examples of Ripped from the Headlines or similar tropes to reference the exact source of the headline in question? My understanding is TV Tropes does not as general policy attempt to maintain Keyfabe, so I see no issue with writing "On date ABC Aloe's actress (or whatever term you use for people behind a corpo vtuber avatar) said XYZ".

But if something like that is too vague, and we need to say exactly when where and by whom XYZ was said... Just state it outright. IMO no reason for us to stick to a semi-niche fandom's conventions if it impacts our troping work. At most, spoiler the stuff referring to happenings she went through not under the Aloe avatar. That's the policy of basically every other community except official subreddits and 4chan anyway.

And that we are openly talking about how the two are connected in this thread is reason enough to rule out avoiding it on a privacy basis. It's vtubing's second worst kept secret, and much of Delutaya's current audience is 'because' of her past as Aloe anyway.

Edited by paradisedj32 on May 26th 2023 at 9:25:47 AM


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