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VTubers Cleanup Thread

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We have determined that Lets Players are not inherently tropable. They need to provide some sort of narrative, characters, and story to be allowed on this wiki. This applies to Vtubers just as much as other content creators, but Kayfabe makes the distinction between streamer and character particularly fuzzy.

The purpose of the thread is to remove tropes from pages concerning Vtubers that apply only to the actor rather than the character.


  • If there is not a clear separation between the character and the actor, we assume that it is the actor represented, and thus they are not tropable.
    • In other words, it is up to the user writing the example to show that it pertains to the character and not the actor.
  • Regardless, the content they produce must meet our standards for Web Video, meaning substantial original and/or transformative material.
    • A vlog, review, or Let's Play does not become tropable just because the person doing it has an anime avatar.
  • Original Characters are not tropable without at least being part of a narrative work. That means there must be produced, published, creative content with that character, not merely a "backstory". Only the elements of those narrative works may be troped.

More details in this post.

For our full policy, visit our Administrivia page on Real Life Troping.


PLEASE do not argue over the guidelines here. We've been through that argument too many times and it slows the cleanup effort down. Asking if some grey area meets the guidelines is okay. Arguing that the guidelines should be changed are not. If you would like to discuss the guidelines, go to the Real-Person Troping Policy thread.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 13th 2025 at 8:42:38 AM

GalaxyLight777 Magic Bullet Slinger Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Magic Bullet Slinger
#476: Nov 5th 2022 at 5:07:00 PM

YMMV.Phase Connect — this page features Diagnosed by the Audience as its sole entry covering Pipkin Pippa. Just raised some red flags for me, as it seems to be covering the IRL individual's mental health. I think this page, if no other YMMV is to be added, may need to be subject to the cutlist. Thoughts?

EDIT: Snipped

Edited by GalaxyLight777 on Nov 5th 2022 at 12:15:37 PM

"I know we'll make it cause somehow, the universe is fun now!" ~Sana
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#478: Nov 5th 2022 at 7:28:55 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Eh, good enough.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#479: Nov 5th 2022 at 7:36:50 PM

Let me answer right now and say that we've never cut a page just because someone involved in the work did a bad thing. The only reason the page would get cut is if the work is deemed untropeworthy.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#480: Nov 5th 2022 at 10:17:28 PM

On an unrelated note, TearJerker.V Shojo is walls upon walls of text of IRL troping, and I have to scroll just to read one first-level bullet in some cases. I'm going to hit it with the thermonuclear warhead soon since only two bullets are lore (and also to be proactive in light of recent developments about one of the talents, if I'm being honest), but the lore bits also have me concerned since what makes them sad is connected to their real lives and their past identities even though the examples themselves supposedly concern fictional or scripted bits. Should they be tossed out as well or just booted to YMMV?

Edited by TrocyteV on Nov 5th 2022 at 10:18:33 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#481: Nov 5th 2022 at 10:21:57 PM

What are those developments so we know what to look out for?

TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#482: Nov 5th 2022 at 10:27:23 PM

Parental Issues, broadly speaking. It's like how TearJerker.Hololive used to have a lengthy section about Kanata and her mother, except the information available to us likely isn't falsified or exaggerated by a third party.

Point is, it's entirely Real Life and shouldn't be there as a result, but knowing the editing patterns on these pages it's probably going to end up there anyways. Even if it doesn't, the page is still filled to the brim with IRL troping anyways and should be axed since there's only two first-level bullets that only might work as I mentioned previously.

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#483: Nov 6th 2022 at 9:44:27 AM

Noting that I've submitted the Tear Jerker page to the cut list. I elected to move the lore examples to my sandbox in case something can be saved from them.

Edited by TrocyteV on Nov 6th 2022 at 9:45:05 AM

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
GalaxyLight777 Magic Bullet Slinger Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Magic Bullet Slinger
#484: Nov 7th 2022 at 12:01:54 PM

So the main Phase-Connect page had this entry added to it recently:


  • Ultimate Job Security: Phase Connect is based in Canada which makes firing anyone very hard for employers to do thanks to Canadian labor laws. This even applies to contract workers.
    • Deconstructed: Management still approves or rejects some projects/streams and the girls rely on them for support so they can't go too crazy, and they can also remove videos from a youtube page if content is too yab(controversial). But at the same time, they have to apply Talent Freedom as well, for if they exerted too much censorship, they will lose their audience or get their talents graduated. Sakana summarised it in his "priests, comedians and metaphors" tweet. He doesn't want pure priestly seisoness (i.e. Hololive), but all he wanted to do was to maintain the bare minimum as to not be known as a complete delinquent company (e.g. Vshojo).

Obvious formatting issues and possible misuse of Playing with a Trope aside, this rubs me the wrong way in several manners, most of this reading like an unorganized trivia piece rather than an In-Universe case of how management is portrayed.

"I know we'll make it cause somehow, the universe is fun now!" ~Sana
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#485: Nov 7th 2022 at 12:06:28 PM

Yeesh. That's unabashed slander of both Hololive and Vshojo. Cut it.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#486: Nov 7th 2022 at 12:07:07 PM

[up][up] Correct, it's inserting a real production trivia into Characters as Device trope. Even at that, it doesn't fit the trope.

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 7th 2022 at 11:07:15 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GalaxyLight777 Magic Bullet Slinger Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Magic Bullet Slinger
#487: Nov 7th 2022 at 12:11:43 PM

[up][up]That's the kinda uneven vibe I get with Phase Connect; it's either bashing of the two bigger companies from the people there, or even disgruntled former fans that congregate there.

Speaking of, where's that tweet the deleted entry's talking about?

Edited by GalaxyLight777 on Nov 7th 2022 at 8:12:35 PM

"I know we'll make it cause somehow, the universe is fun now!" ~Sana
Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#488: Nov 7th 2022 at 2:07:03 PM

Its bizarre to see hololive unironically described as "pure priestly seiso" when the main meme with hololive is how much they fall short of that

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#489: Nov 7th 2022 at 2:09:03 PM

"pure priestly seiso"

I'm sure those words have some kind of meaning.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#490: Nov 7th 2022 at 2:16:23 PM

[up]It's definitely a Clear, Concise, Witty contradiction, as it would've been easier to say "puritanism" with optional intensifiers.

Which makes me realize, there's probably another issue with fan speak seeping into these pages without much of an adequate explanation for what it actually means. "Yabai" for example seems straightforward from context (it basically means "risque" as a Fan Speak term), until you realize that the Japanese word it's supposed to be literally means "Oh, Crap!" in general.

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#491: Nov 7th 2022 at 2:20:10 PM

Sounds like jargon is intruding into these works, which is always a bad sign for their accessibility. Articles should be written without Japanese loanwords, especially ones that may or may not mean what they directly translate to. We went through this with the anime and manga fandom; it sounds like we have to get the sledgehammer out for the VTuber fandom as well.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 7th 2022 at 5:21:01 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#492: Nov 7th 2022 at 2:21:49 PM

"pure priestly seiso" = "Contractual Purity, Exaggerated". Which Hololive is definitely isn't nowdays.

Anyway, I agree that articles shouldn't use Fan Speak out of context and should be written to be understood by an unfamiliar reader.

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 7th 2022 at 1:22:01 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#493: Nov 7th 2022 at 3:36:32 PM

[up][up][up][up] seiso basically means pure, so it's also redundant

GalaxyLight777 Magic Bullet Slinger Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Magic Bullet Slinger
#494: Nov 7th 2022 at 11:40:38 PM

Earlier, I sent a message to the Troper responsible for the entry above to bring attention to this thread, though I'm not sure if they noticed; the only other activity I've seen of them is editing Characters.Phase Connect, which has a fair share of problems at the moment (OOC entries, of both the short and blank variety, and a few that might also be a IRL/Vtuber trait conflict).

EDIT: Actually, the one responsible for the entry isn't the same one; memememememe did tweak it to read that way, while the one troper responsible, wealwords, wrote the following:


  • Ultimate Job Security: Phase Connect is based in Canada which makes firing anyone very hard for employers to do thanks to Canadian labor laws. This even applies to contract workers. Deconstructed: Management still approves or rejects some projects/streams and the girls rely on them for support so they can't go too crazy. Management can also remove videos from a youtube page if content is too yab(controversial). All of this has been Played for Drama and used as stream content, especially the drama of will this stream remain up or will it be deleted.

Just wanted clear up a misunderstanding, though I should write an apology to the former for thinking he solely did this (tho it doesn't change the fact he wrote in the vtuber company slander).

Edited by GalaxyLight777 on Nov 8th 2022 at 8:18:48 PM

"I know we'll make it cause somehow, the universe is fun now!" ~Sana
TrocyteV Chronic lore addict (Petty Master) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Chronic lore addict
#495: Nov 9th 2022 at 10:20:46 AM

Nothing in this folder on Characters.Hololive Minor Characters is kosher, right?


    Mamatori 

Mamatori/Mama Phoenix

Appears in: Takanashi Kiara Ch.

Kiara's real-life mother, who occasionally joins her in playing Minecraft.
  • The Ace: Kiara only allowed her to join the EN server in the first place because she has spent years playing Minecraft, has created marvelous constructs on her own private server, and knows the ins and outs of every game mechanic. Kiara's efforts to rebuild Phoenixton are almost exclusively her following Mamatori's design plans, instructions, and suggestions.
  • Former Teen Rebel: When she was young, she was the leader of a gang and got into numerous fights.
  • The Gadfly: A single-target example; she'll always rib and tease Kiara during their streams together, but will generally be polite and complimentary to everyone else.
  • Good Parents: She is highly supportive of Kiara.
  • Lady Swears-a-Lot: By her own admission. Kiara takes after her, in this respect.
  • Shipper on Deck: It didn't take long after she finally met Calli in Phoenixton that she openly supported helping with setting up a wedding between Calli and her daughter if they were to ever be engaged. She calls Calli a Knight in Shining Armor.
  • So Proud of You: When she learned that Kiara was a Vtuber (after asking "What the FAQ is a Vtuber?") and seeing how successful she was as a streamer, she espoused how proud she was of her daughter.
  • Stacy's Mom: She was very popular in her debut with some fans asking if she was single.
  • Suddenly Voiced: After remaining silent while playing Minecraft, Mamatori finally spoke onstream via a call to Kiara.

The answer is probably "yes" (with Stacy's Mom additionally being misuse), but I wondered if anyone has any second opinions.

"If you spent as much time fightin' as ye did hidin', maybe this wouldn't have happened!"
Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#496: Nov 9th 2022 at 10:46:11 AM

Yeah

The uses of "FAQ" also goes back to the earlier discussion about using fan terms without explanation

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#497: Nov 9th 2022 at 10:49:07 AM

"FAQ" is a common chatspeak that predated Hololive by decades.

Anyway, it's very unlikely "Mama Phoenix" can be considered a Kiara's side-character, unless there's something more that wasn't said on the page.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#498: Nov 9th 2022 at 10:53:17 AM

Yeah, FAQ isn't jargon it's just an acronym, like LOL or OMG.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#499: Nov 9th 2022 at 11:00:11 AM

[up]...and FAQ is one of the oldest Internet acronyms, even predating the World Wide Web.

Kirby is awesome.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#500: Nov 9th 2022 at 11:02:15 AM

"FAQ" is potholed to Precision F-Strike for a reason and isn't meant as an acronym in this context, but I'm rambling at this point.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

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