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VTubers Cleanup Thread

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We have determined that Lets Players are not inherently tropable. They need to provide some sort of narrative, characters, and story to be allowed on this wiki. This applies to Vtubers just as much as other content creators, but Kayfabe makes the distinction between streamer and character particularly fuzzy.

The purpose of the thread is to remove tropes from pages concerning Vtubers that apply only to the actor rather than the character.


  • If there is not a clear separation between the character and the actor, we assume that it is the actor represented, and thus they are not tropable.
    • In other words, it is up to the user writing the example to show that it pertains to the character and not the actor.
  • Regardless, the content they produce must meet our standards for Web Video, meaning substantial original and/or transformative material.
    • A vlog, review, or Let's Play does not become tropable just because the person doing it has an anime avatar.
  • Original Characters are not tropable without at least being part of a narrative work. That means there must be produced, published, creative content with that character, not merely a "backstory". Only the elements of those narrative works may be troped.

More details in this post.

For our full policy, visit our Administrivia page on Real Life Troping.


PLEASE do not argue over the guidelines here. We've been through that argument too many times and it slows the cleanup effort down. Asking if some grey area meets the guidelines is okay. Arguing that the guidelines should be changed are not. If you would like to discuss the guidelines, go to the Real-Person Troping Policy thread.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 13th 2025 at 8:42:38 AM

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#376: Oct 11th 2022 at 12:25:10 PM

Found this in Don't Fear the Reaper:

  • hololive V-Tuber Calliope Mori is a kind grim reaper that cares a lot about her followers. Likewise her "sensei" Death, while keeping more aloof from humanity than Calli, is presented as a Cool Old Guy.
Calli's official lore states that modern medicine has made human souls harder to come by, and streaming has been shown to cause spontaneous viewer death. For these reasons, she streams specifically to kill her viewers so she can harvest their souls. That doesn't sound friendly to me at all. Am I tripping?

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#377: Oct 11th 2022 at 12:43:51 PM

Don't Fear the Reaper is The Grim Reaper who has friendly personality or appearance, opposed to the oblivion incarnate. It doesn't sound like it'd exclude cases if they're Affably Evil or still have to do their "job".

Still, if you replace "cares a lot about her followers" (I assume not in-character) part with what you've described, it wouldn't leave much for the personality and would render it ZCE. Is there anything you could add regarding how she presents herself to others in "official" content?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#378: Oct 11th 2022 at 12:47:43 PM

Most of the "friendly" part of her image really comes from the person rather than the character. Her songs don't really paint her like that.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#379: Oct 11th 2022 at 12:54:59 PM

I guess it wouldn't be an example if she's officially not nice at all.

Does Death-sensei officially exist or he's just a chat moderator / Calli's Acting for Two / mascot?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#380: Oct 11th 2022 at 12:55:59 PM

Officially, I think just a mascot.

Edit: To my understanding, Calli's character comes off as more aloof and haughty than friendly considering "Excuse My Rudeness, But Could You Please R.I.P.?" has her literally asking the listeners to die , and "Off With Their Heads" is a boastful diss track.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Oct 11th 2022 at 4:39:54 AM

Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#381: Oct 11th 2022 at 2:31:34 PM

[up] off with their heads isn't a diss track, its a tough love motivational song

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#382: Oct 11th 2022 at 2:40:52 PM

[up] My bad. Still doesn't paint a super-outwardly-friendly picture in my eyes.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#383: Oct 11th 2022 at 8:34:59 PM

From what I've seen of her content, Calli seems fairly lax about staying in-character — she frequently talks about her out-of-character personal life while substituting names (i.e. calling her mother "Mama Mori"), which strikes me as a case of Mean Character, Nice Actor... were that not In-Universe Examples Only.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#384: Oct 11th 2022 at 8:57:28 PM

Pretty much. As far as Vtubers go, she's generally one of the more in-character ones.

Edit: I removed the entry.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Oct 11th 2022 at 11:01:36 AM

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#385: Oct 12th 2022 at 2:52:28 PM

So I'm late to the discussion. So in regards to purging real life stuff, why was Miko pursuing Akai Haato's affection removed? That's like a major ongoing arc for her character with both her and fans continually referring to it as a "dating sims route" that Miko keeps attempting.

Also looking over this page. Death-Sensei is both a real person AND a lore character. He appears in one of Calli's lore videos and is given a separate voice actor.

He appears at 1:30: https://youtu.be/NbfECtkWiJk

I'll also add there tends to be a lot of inconsistency in the initial bio written by Cover and how the talent later chooses to play the character. Might be best to take their lore summaries with a grain of salt when looking over their whole character.

Edited by Snowy66 on Oct 12th 2022 at 2:55:01 AM

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#386: Oct 12th 2022 at 2:54:33 PM

[up] If you haven't read Real Life Troping, I'd recommend a quick read. It might provide you some insight into why we handle Vtubers the way we do. It's also linked in the stickied post towards the bottom.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Oct 12th 2022 at 4:55:57 AM

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#387: Oct 12th 2022 at 2:56:52 PM

Yes I'm aware of what this thread has been doing. All the examples I've listed is not real life shoehorning.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#388: Oct 12th 2022 at 2:59:14 PM

A reminder that that not everyone is familiar with every vtuber's video, and the site operates on "guilty until proven innocent". If something was removed despite being a part of a plot, most likely the example showed no indication of its scope and probably can be put back if rewritten. Something like "In the Calli's Christmas Catastrophe animated comic..." in example context would help a ton.

Edited by Amonimus on Oct 12th 2022 at 1:00:13 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#389: Oct 12th 2022 at 3:01:08 PM

Well I'm just saying, perhaps you guys might like to consult some of the tropers who are more familiar with their content. Since reading through a lot of the replies here, often there seems to be a lot uncertainty over the status of real life vs. in-character content, leading to quick rough searches to get an idea.

Edited by Snowy66 on Oct 12th 2022 at 3:04:11 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#390: Oct 12th 2022 at 3:04:52 PM

The problem is, a lot of people familiar with the content are also unwilling to take part in a lot of this cleanup as a whole or may be biased when it comes to determining what is and isn't tropeworthy. Basically, if we could trust all the people who understand all of these works to help out, then we shouldn't necessarily need this project in the first place. The confusion started with the people who made these pages — we're just following the rules that have been solidified since.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#391: Oct 12th 2022 at 3:06:11 PM

[up][up] What was said above is right. The problem is that the people who have been editing these articles aren't following the rules. You can't just barge in and demand we consult you if you weren't willing to participate in the rulemaking process until we started enforcing things.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#392: Oct 12th 2022 at 3:10:47 PM

Okay, I'm sorry if I came off as rude. If none of the other editors from those pages are willing to, I'm happy to hang here to verify things.

So long as you guys are satisfied the points I've brought up for edits don't violate any rules.

[up]Apologies. I didn't know the cleanup was happening until the first cut occurred. I looked over the initial discussion and was going to leave the judgement to the cleanup effort. But soon started feeling that a lot of the cuts could do with some more insight.

Edited by Snowy66 on Oct 12th 2022 at 3:14:44 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#393: Oct 12th 2022 at 3:29:13 PM

We don't require doing research when cleaning ZCE, so there's no real obligation of announcing there being a cleanup (though would help it go faster). If there's something an example wasn't telling, it's the problem of whoever added it there in the first place.

Still, any assistance contextualizing stuff is welcome. If you can rewrite examples you think were/would be cut unjustly, we can put them back (again, they can't stay if it requires further insight or turn to be not in-character).

Also noting that the current HL progress is assembling Sandbox.Hololive Suisei Channel

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#394: Oct 12th 2022 at 3:44:05 PM

So long as you guys don't feel I'm imposing or bogging down the cleanup effort. I'm happy to help with contextualizing and/or rewrites of past or future entries.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#395: Oct 12th 2022 at 3:45:52 PM

We would like nothing better than for people who are familiar with these works to contribute to making them compliant with our policies. We just don't want to rehash the debate about the policy again.

I realize that a lot of people are very invested in the kayfabe of VTubers, but we have already settled the matter of whether our (preexisting) rules will bend for them.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#396: Oct 12th 2022 at 4:01:45 PM

Yeah, I made sure to fully familiarise with the stance on real life troping. Not here to fight cuts for any of those.

Any and all suggestions I make will be for in-character / lore examples. If needed, I'll provide evidence for instances that appear tricky or confusing.

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#397: Oct 12th 2022 at 6:12:06 PM

Reiterating my post from the previous page, took a second look at WebAnimation.Phase Connect and found this:

  • Biting-the-Hand Humor: Like how hololive has it's CEO YAGOO subject to being the butt of the joke among the talents and fans, the CEO of Phase-Connect Kevin Li, commonly known as Sakana, is given similar treatment. Such as Uruka claiming herself the owner of Phase-Connect, or how he's portrayed as a Corrupt Corporate Executive in Shiina's lore video.
  • Corrupt Corporate Executive: In Shiina's lore video, Sakana kidnaps a bunch of the girls as part of his "not scam" to build and debut the second generation of Phase-Connect.
  • Suspiciously Specific Denial: Sakana's recruitment poster for Phase-Connect featured in Shiina's lore video has such gems like "[NOT A SCAM!]" directly below WANTED and "Not a black company"note  in the speech bubble. When Shiina makes it to the corporation to apply for a job, the "totally NOT overworked manager" also repeats the latter phrase insistently with a tired look on her face.

Anyone verify this?

Eh, good enough.
Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#398: Oct 12th 2022 at 6:53:15 PM

I have zero knowledge of phase connect so i can only confirm the bit about YAGOO

Freecom the "Risky Click Pub" asshole from probably offending whales somewhere Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
the "Risky Click Pub" asshole
#399: Oct 12th 2022 at 8:17:45 PM

[up]#392 yeah this is why we need some sort of header on the pages that are being discussed, i doubt anyone came here after i highlighted this thread in the hololive discussion forum

i'm just a casual fan at best so more insight is always helpful

on a somewhat related note i'm probably not going to contribute as much, life's getting kinda nutty for me at the moment. hopefully the sandbox pages i made can at least point future contributors to this cleanup in the right general direction

weaponizing Dungeon Fighter Online elitism since 2018
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#400: Oct 12th 2022 at 9:10:19 PM

[up]ohh, I see you did ask for help from the community. Apologies I completely missed that. I think a lot of people don't follow the main work's page. You might be able to get attract more attention if you link those on the main Character index.


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