Killing Malos wouldn't kill Amalthus though.
It is odd that Jin doesn't just go straight at the latter though.
He's more than strong enough to do so on his own. I guess he's just that pissed and nihilistic at that point that he's not satisfied with that.
And by the time they do start more directly opposing each other, Amalthus is powerful enough to give Tora more than just a little bit of trouble.
Edited by HandsomeRob on May 26th 2024 at 7:29:43 AM
One Strip! One Strip!The best time Jin would have had for taking out Amalthus was around the end of the Golden Country, where he hadn’t shoved so many core crystals inside himself yet. But the man was too broken and was living as a homeless man in poverty for centuries and never got the aid he needed to be able to strike Amalthus until way, way later. Long after Amalthus has made himself the most powerful person politically and had enslaved numerous Blades and taken their powers as his own. Jin himself Mercy Kill Haze both to free her and to remove a tool Amalthus has to counter Blades.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 26th 2024 at 7:39:44 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.No way, Jin rules. He's a hollowed-out wreck of a person who wants to die, will settle for killing Amalthus, and makes himself get up in the mornings to lead a rebellion where everyone he's fighting for is experiencing Happiness in Slavery.
But even more interestingly, Jin and all of Torna are Xenoblade 2's Shulk and XB 1 party equivalents. A hero and his best friend set out with a supercomputer in weapon form to get revenge for the hero's fallen beloved before finding a new family and realizing they have to kill god. It's absolutely perfect, and 2 should have ended with an even more direct callback to Xenoblade 1 to ram the point home.
Now it's XB 3 related.
Edited by Watashiwa on May 26th 2024 at 7:43:38 AM
I mean, I like him because I like how literary it is. I think his actions in the base game make him look pathetic instead of cool. Man should have argued the "Blades are slaves not people" thing at all instead of wishing humans treated their slave species better.
Took TTGC to make me like him as a character.
Edited by Watashiwa on May 26th 2024 at 7:54:44 AM
I'm glad other people are starting to realize that Jin is supposed to be a Mirror Character to Shulk. It took Future Redeemed overtly establishing Shulk as the avatar of Logos within the Holy Trinity, and thus the Good Counterpart of Jin and Malos, but there's been hints of it in 2 the whole time, and not just the fact that Malos uses Monado Arts (with Shulk later using one of Malos's).
In base 2, Jin comes off as a bit of a Strawman Political Malcolm Xerox to Rex's Sympathetic Slave Owner, but the context provided by TTGC really emphasizes the overlap in motives between Jin and Shulk (a tomboyish woman he cared deeply for his whole life was killed during an attack on his homeland by an invading nation, driving him to declare vengeful genocide against those who wronged him and fall in with a Trinity Processor who enables him), but the lack of a proper support system to help Jin snap out of his nihilism causes him to become the Dark Messiah to the latter' Messianic Archetype. Jin is also a Lacan Expy in the same vein as Egil, who was very overtly portrayed as a Foil and Shadow Archetype to Shulk, what Shulk would have become if he wasn't a chronic overthinker who went through enough Character Development to realize that what he needs to permanently end the cycle of genocide is to abolish the oppressive system of gods and subjects altogether in favor of a completely democratic system of self-determination, rather than victory over the "opposing team".
It makes Jin that much more tragic and pitiable, and it also makes me appreciate Shulk's character arc that much more in hindsight, because it shows just how easy it was for Shulk to go down the wrong path considering three separate characters ended up falling along the way. Likewise, the portrayal of Ouroboros in 3 as Torna's Good Counterpart really emphasizes the former's distinctly antiheroic nature and how close they could've been to becoming the true unsung heroes of 2 if only they had a guiding light to fight in the name of liberation rather than vengeance.
Edited by AlleyOop on May 27th 2024 at 12:14:56 PM
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Again that just doesn't work for me as in comparison, Amalthus lived a hard life even more then 500 years to see the atrocities of mankind and we get to see that in his mind, first was his mother trowing him off a cliff to save him from the soldiers then seeing her corpse that made him went on a rampage, fast forward and is now a member of the indol praetorium helping out those that went through war only to find out the same person that he helped out murdering a mother and about to kill a baby, then finally with his faith barely holding on went to clime the world tree only to find a empty desolate place with no architect and only two core crystals there after that he became despair incarnate slowly choking the world the death.
As for Jin he gain powers beyond normal blades and he has many reasons to fight Amalthus but he would rather wallow in his misery or would fight Rex who in this allegory is the hope of the world then fight his despair at any point.
And it's because of this I view Jin with distain as he never tried to fight back and would rather kill the hope of the world just so he can stay miserable.
Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on May 26th 2024 at 8:32:55 AM
After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.Amalthus lived a life of privilege for over 500 years, was already tormenting individuals who didn’t even have the freedoms him or regular people did BEFORE he killed the baby(Blades), and used that life to make himself content with slowly making everyone else die over time while he lived in luxury and had them blame those even lower in the hierarchy for their ills.
I’m a firm anti-Amalthus and all the excuses used to justify his stance.
The moment he killed that baby with his own hands was just the final straw to be a monster all the time, as he had already been doing mad science to Blades to make Flesh Eaters.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 26th 2024 at 8:39:40 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.Er... what? No, it's mentioned that Jin and Torna tried to kill Amalthus on several occasions but failed because of Haze. While they did that, Jin saw how awful Blades have it and let Malos get into his head about killing the Architect and taking his place, so they shelved the Amalthus plan because killing the Architect took priority.
Like, Jin IS depressed, but it didn't make him give up on fighting or trying to change the world, it made him give up on trying to do it peacefully.
Yeah and it’s very weak reasoning for the actions he partakes in. The fact the man already murdered a baby before climbing the world tree meant he was never going to get an answer that satisfied him to begin with.
And before he met Malos he was a depressed homeless man in misery because what he had wanted to do back when Lora died was die with her, but her wish to not be forgotten became a curse he tried to live by to honor her wishes.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 26th 2024 at 8:44:55 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.Well we don't know if he killed the baby unless its in some dev book, and to me how you feel about Amalthus is how I feel about Jin: there is no excuses to them and that's the point.
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when did the game showed they tried to kill Amalthus?
Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on May 26th 2024 at 8:48:33 AM
After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.Jin does have an excuse, and it’s trying to honor the woman he loves wishes to not be forgotten. It was the WRONG choice, but it was the only thing he could do to honor Lora’s wish to not be forgotten, which was worse than death.
He lived in misery as a homeless man for who knows how long and it was only when he met Malos and became friends with him that he acted like the one we see in the game.
And every problem and issue Jin had in his life was directly because of Amalthus. So no, Amalthus being the worse IS Jins excuse as well.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 26th 2024 at 8:50:17 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.![]()
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Exactly. He can't let himself die because Lora didn't want him to forget her.
The Blade lifecycle is (nearly) the most fucked up thing in the whole franchise and it kills me that the game didn't dig more into it.
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It's mentioned on Temperantia that Haze had stopped them before.
Also Torna makes it pretty clear that Amalthus killed that baby.
Edited by Watashiwa on May 26th 2024 at 8:53:27 AM
The Blade lifecycle being a case of Inherent in the System that 2 fails to properly examine is the primary reason why a lot of folks who are more interested in digging into the rather bizarre politics of 2 tend to view the game as having an Esoteric Happy Ending and Rex as something of a Sympathetic Slave Owner centrist who fights to maintain a kinder and gentler version of the status quo.
It's also why they view his portrayal in Future Redeemed as an improvement, since he becomes a proactive revolutionary to match with Shulk (who inversely was depicted at the end of 1 as someone who fights for peace but is politically radical, despite being the one who keeps getting hit with angry accusations of being a liberal centrist who preaches tolerance for fascists).
I actually have a hard time disagreeing with these criticisms of 2. It probably wasn't the game's intent, just as it likely wasn't 2's intent to bothside imperialism and villainize political radicalism or promote antisemitic stereotypes and conspiracy theories so viciously with its portrayal of the Nopon. 3's politics and how it more or less addresses many of these make that very clear.
But 2 also does very little to help its case by going out of its way to Broken Aesop its own message that Blades are people by comparing them to a fantastical form of gun control in Indol, and highlighting that the nature of Blades easily allows humans to sexually enslave and rape them. It's also frustrating that 2 refuses to confront the fact that Brighid and Jin's abilities to have their abilities recorded for their future incarnations' benefit is more or less a result of class stratification and them belonging to the Blade version of the 1%, and thus a systemic issue that can't be solved by the kind of individualistic actions that Rex recommends.
Edited by AlleyOop on May 26th 2024 at 9:09:31 AM
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if Jin was wanting to honor the memory of Lora he would have fought for the world but didn't and that's my issue with him, he didn't do anything at all until Malos showed up which then made him a puppet to Amalthus to choke the world to death.
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was this on attempt on Amalthus or just trying to stop them in general?
yeah can't help but feel that your overthinking this.
Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on May 26th 2024 at 9:03:22 AM
After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.Jin had just witnessed a genocide caused by Amalthus and Indol on the survivors and Lora died in the battle, and in an emotional last ditch effort to honor her wish to not be forgotten, became a Flesh Eater.
That he spent the next few centuries or so depressed and homeless and not starting a futile revolution isn’t on him when he, as a Blade, is inherently someone the system is against. It took a supercomputer turned Psychopathic Manchild finding him to turn his life around for both the better in some regards(finding old friends/new kin) and worse(enabling each others worse tendencies).
And has been mentioned several times their previous attempts to kill Amalthus failed in part thanks to Haze, so they went for even more radical actions to bring about change.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 26th 2024 at 9:06:27 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.![]()
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It's not overthinking it when these games directly namedrop real-world political issues and when 3 goes out of its way to invite the player to analyze the entire series through a sociopolitical lens, partially by setting up deliberate narrative parallels with those older games. I'm just doing what the developers want me to. Also most of what I just brought up isn't even subtext. It's literally part of the text, albeit somewhat lacking in self-awareness of itself.
Edited by AlleyOop on May 26th 2024 at 9:10:39 AM
Shulk didn’t do shit alone. Reyn joined his friend and was there to aid him from the start. Jin did not have this. He had no one; and he didn’t have a literal Godslaying weapon at the time to aid him, which Shulk did.
And what did Jin do when a God slaying weapon DID come into his life? Try to force change by taking out the root of current issues(Amalthus) and failing that go even further.
Like even in 3 it was constantly getting their hands on the divine power of Ouroboros that 3 had N and Mio attempt to overthrow the system.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 26th 2024 at 9:11:12 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.![]()
Well I have yet to play 3 so I have no horse in that race yet.
Except Jin had the power to kill a old human not a god and if he need to get a team to help him he would have done so by then and that would have help him to me because of all the failures he would endure would be more of reason to become depressed over time.
Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on May 26th 2024 at 9:15:21 AM
After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.

For me I hate Jin do to him not doing anything against Amalthus with the power he has, like he could just kill Malos or just try stop Amalthus from gaining power but he just doesn't like at all and that's just makes his words to Rex feel hollow to me.
After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.