To-do list
- Move wicks to Simple Staff to the tropes listed on the disambig when applicable. Delete Zero-Context Example and anything that doesn't fit an existing trope.
- 38,(6)% (29/75) of wicks describe a staff that's used for melee combat
- 8% (6/75) of wicks describe other stick-like melee weapon
- 28% (21/75) of wicks are misused Magic Staff examples
- 16% (12/75) of wicks are unidentifiable ZCEsnote
- 9,(3)% (7/75) of wicks are unclear/vague
Additionally, at least 31 of 166 Main/ wicks (~18,6%) are misused, and actually refer to Magic Staff.
The main problem with the current definition is that it describes any stick used in melee as an example of this trope. Take, for example, the line "many double as symbols of status and thus feature elaborate headpieces". However, actual combat staves are not just clubs, and they should not have any headpieces, as it would mess with the balance. Meanwhile, most Magic Staves do have massive headpieces that are often used to hit the enemy with, should the staff be used in melee, adding to the confusion. Additionally, the page also mentions eskrima/kali sticks, that are also very different from staves.
In light of the above, I think that the reason for misuse is that the trope's definition is too wide. It just invites to shoehorn here any stick that's ever used to hit someone. In my opinion, it should be redefined to cover only staves used for martial arts. A good, albeit by no means universal, rule of thumb would be looking if the weapon has a defined top and bottom, as martial arts staves usually lack them. A rename may also be considered, given how the second paragraph contradicts the name with the line "not all staves need be so simple", and some examples include combinable and other hi-tech staves.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 27th 2022 at 8:46:34 AM
the Retromancer
As a Weapon Of Choice, it wasn't tropable, we're making it so. And it's in TRS for a different reason.
Edited by Amonimus on Jul 9th 2022 at 6:25:38 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
this redefine is going to make the trope "plain staffs are the Weapon Of Choice for martial artists" and cover the use of plain staffs as a characterization tool
The axes trope is much broader and covers anytime, anyone uses an axe for combat, even if its incidental or not
Just stoic wisdom.
Oic. Alright, that makes sense!
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Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
Weapon Of Choice itself already involves characterization, which is why its thread is working on renaming it to Weapon-Based Characterization (with Weapon Specialization covering exactly what it sounds like, and what people misuse Weapon Of Choice as).
You can't always get what you want.
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
Calling in favor of limiting examples to staves used for martial arts.
We'll need to rewrite the description to account for this, but in the meantime, what are our options for names?
You can't always get what you want.
(she/her)
I can try reworking the description at Sandbox.Simple Staff (if we don't need another sandbox for that).
Martial Artists Staff and Martial Arts Staff were suggested earlier.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 12th 2022 at 11:11:41 AM
Macron's notes
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
All right, it's hooked.
You can't always get what you want.
Officially intimidated
Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of Martial Arts Staff. I didn't upvote or downvote any of the other options.
135 - 158 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
She / Her
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
"
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
Calling in favor of Martial Arts Staff.
I'm guessing we'll need to sandbox the description, so for now I'll make Martial Arts Staff a redirect so it's open to editing for non-mods.
You can't always get what you want.
(she/her)
I made Sandbox.Martial Arts Staff but all I did was scrap relevant paragraphs for Simple Staff together.
Looking for examples with enough context wasn't easy but I hope to find more.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 16th 2022 at 9:49:16 AM
Macron's notes
How sweet it is
Moved the lone video example over to Martial Arts Staff to prepare for the move.
Are we also moving the current image and quote on Simple Staff too?
Edited by Berrenta on Jul 17th 2022 at 3:31:50 AM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
the Retromancer
I'd move the image and quote until a better suggestion in respective forums.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
Sandbox.Martial Arts Staff now has 12-15 crosswickable examples so I guess we are good on that front? Does the description need work?
Macron's notes
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
The only problem I saw was a wick to Weapon Of Choice despite it being a disambiguation page, but I fixed that by replacing the wick with a pothole to Weapon Specialization with "weapon of choice" as the text.
Since that's out of the way, I think we're good to go with the draft.
You can't always get what you want.
(she/her)
I did the move and turned Simple Staff into a disambig. I'll crosswick Martial Arts Staff later today.
1711 wicks
to clean.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 27th 2022 at 8:48:00 AM
Macron's notes
I suggest adding Boom Stick to the disambiguation page. I've just realized I moved a few examples to the Magic Staff when they were actually Boom Sticks
Edit : also, I've encountered a few examples that are not really a Magic Staff or a Boom Stick but still deal some additional damage with fire, electricity or something. I went looking if it's a trope and found Elemental Weapon. Maybe add it to disambig as well?
Edit 2: while I'm at it, Blade On A Stick could be added to, since it's also a usage I've encountered.
Edit 3: ooh, there also a Cane Fu, that's probably worth adding to disambig (I honestly thought we didn't have this one and was thinking about suggesting it).
Edited by kundoo on Aug 26th 2022 at 10:43:05 AM
You didn't see anything.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Can a Magic Staff be used as a melee weapon? I noticed that the characters of Atelier who do this have had their example removed (which is fair, since their staff is far too fancy to be a Martial Arts Staff), but even when it's used to bonk enemies, it still represents magic to some extent, as alchemists in these games almost always use a staff, not only for combat but also to stir their cauldron.
The description of Magic Staff does mention physical combat a few times, but I'm kinda used to it being defined as "a really big magic wand" so I'm not sure.
As Macron Notes explained to me, Martial Arts Staff is about staffs being closely associated with Martial Arts and Martial Artists, not just staffs being used as melee weapons, which is no longer considered a trope (I hope I got it right this time ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
).
Might a mage using their Magic Staff as an Improvised Weapon, actually be that trope, or Weapons of Their Trade?
Edited by Malady on Aug 26th 2022 at 10:26:52 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Ok, I've just realized I'm not entirely sure which examples should or should not go to Martial Arts Staff. If an entry mentions a bo or a quaterstaff, but doesn't mention any martial art, is it an example? If a character is a trained fighter, who uses staves, but, once again, no specific martial art is mentioned, is this an example? If a character is a monk (monks are mentioned in the description of the trope), is this an example?
You didn't see anything.
Since no one else answered, I'd just share my thoughts. No, it won't be this trope unless the mage in question is also a trained martial artist (or is training to become one).
Just using a staff to fight off enemies in not a trope, since it's too general.
Edited by kundoo on Aug 27th 2022 at 2:31:41 AM
You didn't see anything.
Sorry for triple posting, but I've just discovered there's a Shock Stick trope, so staffs that emit fire o electricity can go there.
You didn't see anything.
I'm inclined to agree that "resorting to using a big magic wand as a melee weapon" isn't the same as a staff for martial arts. It could go under Improbable Use of a Weapon (which is where I've seen "smack people with your bow at close range" examples go).
I don't think we need a specific martial art for full context (and I don't think the average person can be counted on to name bojutsu or arnis); it can be reasonably inferred from how they fight with said staff with some degree of regularity.
Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 28th 2022 at 10:35:43 AM
Crown Description:
Consensus was to limit examples of Simple Staff to staves used for martial arts and rename the trope. What should the new name be?
Wait but I thought this wasn't tropable because Axes is on the (pardon the pun) chopping block for being "character uses x weapon"???
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