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Cleanup Thread: MCU Character Pages

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Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#401: Sep 14th 2022 at 3:57:15 AM

[up][up][up][up] I don't see why the Pym family's lack of focus as superheroes should prevent them from being on the Others Superheroes page. Johnny Blaze had even less focus than them, and yet he's still on this page.

Edited by Mimic45 on Sep 14th 2022 at 12:59:08 PM

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#402: Sep 14th 2022 at 4:02:58 AM

[up]The more I think about it, the more I agree that they can go on the other superheroes page. As long as it doesn't push it over the edge, they should be fine. Hope can actually go to Avengers Allies herself.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#403: Sep 14th 2022 at 5:50:46 AM

[up][up] Blaze is there because there’s no other place to put him, so that’s not the same situation - they’re fleshed our characters who have spent their time primarily working with another hero. Again, the page they’re on is completely fine, and moving/merging all these pages just to give one person a solo page makes no sense

And again, if we split off Beck from the rest of the gang, how many bytes do the rest of the people have? Quentin had his own page once but it got reverted because the remaining page was tiny without him and I’m certain the same issue will apply again.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Sep 14th 2022 at 8:58:37 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#404: Sep 14th 2022 at 7:05:13 AM

So, I've noticed that we're changing character pages to reflect the character's actual name, rather than the superhero alias they have. That's fine for the most part, but I'm a little uncomfortable with Moon Knight's page being changed to Marc Spector specifically. I mean, we have three equally prominent characters all in one body that are all connected under the Moon Knight mantle, so to only emphasize Marc feels wrong to me.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
MaxyGregoryyyy Jedi Knight of the Republic from Madripoor Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Jedi Knight of the Republic
#405: Sep 14th 2022 at 8:25:55 AM

Well, Marc Spector is legally who he is, that’s what he’s also labeled as in his comic character specific page, that’s also what he’s labeled as in the Marvel Database, and while Marc, Steven, and Jake have all had their moments of focus, Marc is basically considered the primary identity because he created the other alters.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#406: Sep 14th 2022 at 10:05:53 AM

I kind of agree with the Marc Spector one being a little potentially ableist against what is a multiples system, but if we have to for consistency's sake, Marc is the best choice of the three, but still.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#407: Sep 14th 2022 at 12:21:09 PM

[up] Yeah, exactly. Marc may have been the one born first, but I feel like this new naming convention invalidates Steven and Jake, when the whole idea behind Moon Knight is that they all exist as separate entities. The only thing that truly binds them together is the Moon Knight mantle, and Khonshu.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#408: Sep 14th 2022 at 1:23:36 PM

The rest of the Mysterio group is not big enough with out Beck. Just rename it to Mysterio. Like Scream: Ghostface it's a collective identity and the rest of the group is not big enough with out him.

Also rename the Marc page back to Moon Knight I don't care about legal stuff, but how the work portrays them. In this case he work treats them as separate characters and that should be reflected in the page.

On the other hand move the Hope and Janet to Other Superheroes.

Edited by Bullman on Sep 14th 2022 at 3:28:00 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#409: Sep 14th 2022 at 4:08:02 PM

Well I wasn’t suggesting making their own page. Just move Mysterio’s team into criminal groups, either US or worldwide.

Also the idea was to get away from using code names with the advent of legacy characters. Changing back to moon knight doesn’t really work. DID characters are tricky in general. Especially with other aliases. Moon knight has 5 separate aliases so far. Then there’s the hulk and green goblin, each with other names. So how should that work?

Edited by GateStarX on Sep 14th 2022 at 4:13:23 AM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#410: Sep 14th 2022 at 4:09:43 PM

Again, why do that just to give Quentin his own page when the page he's currently on is not only fine but also far more convenient for grouping's sake?

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#411: Sep 14th 2022 at 4:15:02 PM

[up]I feel Mysterios team and the elementals are kind of just tacked on to Quentin’s page. So they should be moved somewhere more appropriate.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#412: Sep 14th 2022 at 4:59:00 PM

Also the idea was to get away from using code names with the advent of legacy characters. Changing back to moon knight doesn’t really work. DID characters are tricky in general. Especially with other aliases. Moon knight has 5 separate aliases so far.

It's really not that complicated. Marc Spector and his alters are only ones holding the mantle of Khonshu's Avatar, so by default they hold the title of Moon Knight collectively. There's no legacy character to worry about (especially since the character was just introduced), and the extensions of the suit itself still fall under the Moon Knight mantle. For example, at no point in the show is Steven referred to as Mr. Knight, either by himself or by others.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#413: Sep 14th 2022 at 5:12:52 PM

The major factor is that we wanted it uniform. Having all the characters under real names. I’m a huge fan of moon knight, but his birth name is Marc Spector, Steven and Jake are still huge parts of the character and have their own folder. Marc Spector is the real name of Moon Knight. I don’t see how this is any different from the Hulk or Green Goblin. The change doesn’t work if everyone else is changed over and then Moon Knight stays the same. It would be confusing.

Edited by GateStarX on Sep 14th 2022 at 5:13:39 AM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#414: Sep 14th 2022 at 5:20:25 PM

Popping in to agree with [up][up] and Alley. The main difference between Moon Knight and the Hulk/Goblin is that Moon Knight is an accurate representation of DID, whereas the other two are generic Hollywood versions—both of which, mind you, end up resolved with one personality as the dominant, Bruce and Norman. It feels incredibly offensive to apply the same to Moon Knight, when the entire point is that they're all equally in control.

Also agree with Star on Mysterio, the Collective Identity nature of the character makes me more lenient with styling it as a normal character-specific page while tacking on the rest of his allies at the bottom. Who doesn't have that as an excuse, on the other hand, is Hela with Fenris and the Berserkers on her page when they could easily be moved over to Asgard.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Sep 14th 2022 at 8:21:01 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#415: Sep 14th 2022 at 5:26:50 PM

Yeah, Moon Knight is a unique situation due to their DID and the fact that, even if Marc was the one who owns the system's legal name and experienced the majority of their life, one of the show's aesops was that alters like Steven are just as valid and can be of equal importance. Not leaving it as Moon Knight creates Unfortunate Implications that aren't the case for the other MCU characters with Split Personality aspects.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 14th 2022 at 9:31:22 AM

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#416: Sep 14th 2022 at 6:02:05 PM

Ok. Well then maybe MCU Marc Spector Steven Grant Jake Lockely? Have the name be similar to SSU: Eddie Brock / Venom. I’m not disagreeing with anyone on the validity on Steven Grant and Jake Lockley, I just want to move away from using code names in the title. So the issue is it can’t be Moon Knight and it can’t be Marc Spector. We need another name then. Maybe Marc Spector’s system? Idk. If anyone’s got any better suggestions go ahead. But I don’t want to go back to Moon Knight.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#417: Sep 14th 2022 at 6:07:34 PM

Is it really so big a deal? Sure, just calling him Moon Knight sticks out when we change everything else, but unique situations happen and this feels like easily the most unique we’re going to get. Moon Knight is the simplest thing to call them—I admittedly don’t know if the system thing is acceptable, but all three names together is just making it overly complicated for no real reason.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#418: Sep 14th 2022 at 6:28:49 PM

There's no reason not to just treat it as a situational exception given that the real names format is just a guideline and not a hard rule to be followed to the absolute letter. If anyone in the future questions it, just point them to this discussion. It's not that confusing, especially since Moon Knight having DID is well-known.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 14th 2022 at 9:30:35 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#419: Sep 14th 2022 at 6:30:06 PM

Just gonna chime in again to say just call him Moon Knight and leave it at that

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#420: Sep 14th 2022 at 6:44:25 PM

I don’t think an exception should be made tbh. That sets a precedent that other people will want to abuse. I guarantee that someone will come along and change it back to Marc Spector anyways when they see it’s the only character not under a real name.

Switching the naming system but leaving a page under the old just doesn’t make logical sense to me. Also if you want to accommodate Steven and Jake Moon Knight doesn’t work either. They are not Moon Knight. The character of Marc Spector was chosen as Moon Knight. Whilst Steven and Jake are separate personae, they were not chosen as moon knight. The body of Marc Spector was chosen and since they also inhabit Marc Spector’s body they get the power too. I honestly think of it as there is Marc Spector the physical being, and then the personae of Marc, Steven, and Jake all inhabiting that body. Idk, think of Marc Spector as a location, with Marc, Steven, and Jake all living there.

Sorry if this seems to be getting to me. I just want the new system to be uniform and the same. I don’t want to make an exception.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#421: Sep 14th 2022 at 6:46:15 PM

Look I'm just a lurker who has literally no stake in this issue at all but you're the only one who seems convinced that using "Moon Knight" will be confusing when using three names in one title seems even more confusing. Just leave a note saying that it's named Moon Night because the character has DID.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MaxyGregoryyyy Jedi Knight of the Republic from Madripoor Since: Mar, 2017 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Jedi Knight of the Republic
#422: Sep 14th 2022 at 7:02:51 PM

Pardon me if I’m interrupting, but I recently rewatched Captain America: The First Avenger and I noticed that the post credits scene is a sneak peek of The Avengers movie. Considering how a trailer of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness appeared as post credits in Spider-Man: No Way Home and the appearance of the characters there are labeled Spider-Man: No Way Homenote  in their pages/folders, I was wondering if we should do the same with the characters that appeared in First Avenger’s post credits scene.

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#423: Sep 14th 2022 at 7:24:18 PM

[up]Sure, why not.

[up][up]I just want to go with Marc Spector. I don’t consider it to insulting or have unfortunate implications. That is the real, legal name that they were born with. There are a lot of pages that have other associated characters on it. Why can’t it just be Marc Spector?

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#424: Sep 14th 2022 at 7:27:19 PM

It's because Marc isn't the only person in the body, the alters are all just as valid and Marc isn't "the main one" or "the real one".

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#425: Sep 14th 2022 at 7:38:28 PM

[up]I’m not saying they aren’t. Just that marc is the base. Marc Spector has DID, he was raised Marc Spector, Moon Knights alternate identity is Marc Spector. Both Wikipedia and the MCU wikia both clarify that he is Marc Spector. While all personalities are legitimate beings, the body and primary personality is Marc Spector.

Also Green Goblin and the Hulk have to be included in this conversation.

Edited by GateStarX on Sep 14th 2022 at 7:39:23 AM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!

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