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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#276: Oct 23rd 2022 at 2:26:29 PM

The New Republic was a massive huge success. It just got annihilated because it's federal government was completely wiped out.

They have to defeat the First Order to convene a new Federal government.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#277: Oct 23rd 2022 at 2:32:54 PM

Current events also make it easier to believe that a huge chunk of the constituency a seemingly democratic body might jump at the chance to embrace tyranny once the government systems that combat it are either gone or in peril.

I do think the best way to deal with he New Republic going forward is to do a bit of a soft-retcon. Instead of "the First Order took over the entire galaxy in an afternoon," have it that the loss of Hosnian and the federal government cracked the galaxy into pieces - with some bodies supporting the Republic, other bodies supporting the First Order, and others now preferring to be Independent, all promptly becoming hostile to one another. Then say that the reason the sympathetic pieces couldn't help the Resistance is that they had their hands full fighting everyone else.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 23rd 2022 at 2:44:56 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#278: Oct 23rd 2022 at 2:43:14 PM

Do note that the entirety of TFA and TLJ take place over probably an Earth week at most. "Still in shock" would certainly make sense as to why nobody came to help until TROS.

EruditeEsotericist Since: May, 2015
#279: Oct 23rd 2022 at 4:24:42 PM

Personally I've no issue with the OT being retconned by series like this. It was made back in the 70s and 80s, a different world, a different perspective, and not one made with this sort of show in mind. Hell I'd be completely cool with a wholesale remake, to modern standards, of the originals. Won't happen obviously but I'd not object.

Still, one thing I like about this show is that most of the characters can plausibly not appear in the OT/ST while still remaining alive/important off-screen. The people and structures we're seeing, they can be alive and well, doing key things, that the Skywalkers just aren't involved with, and as such don't all need to be killed off like the R1 or Blue Squadron did at the end of that film.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#280: Oct 24th 2022 at 1:07:11 AM

[up][up]TLJ in particular takes place over about a day or so.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#281: Oct 24th 2022 at 6:27:08 AM

It's funny that this show can make literal board meeting scenes so enthralling that I get invested in the office politics and jurisdictional arguments and root for Dedra to win, and then I have to double take and remember that actually Dedra succeeding is bad.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#282: Oct 24th 2022 at 7:09:15 AM

Well, part of the thing to remember is that those scenes are Evil vs. Evil. Blevin succeeding is also bad, just in a way that Luthen predicts. It's also helped by the Foregone Conclusion that the Rebellion ultimately does succeed; thus ultimately we know that her potential success wouldn't can't possibly be a true threat to the Rebellion.

Ultimately, at this point, how Dedre vs. Blevin shakes out is whether the sympathetic evil bureaucrat beats the Smug Sname evil bureaucrat.

... prolly how Luthen dies, though.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#283: Oct 24th 2022 at 9:14:35 AM

Yeah, they're probably going to do something to remind us later in the series that even though Dedra has traits that make us want to root for her, she's still a high ranking officer in an evil organization and that her winning is no good for anyone.

So far she's only interacted with other Imperial characters. Once that changes, we're going to start seeing her in a different light.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 24th 2022 at 9:40:16 AM

Vlad3163 Since: May, 2022
#284: Oct 24th 2022 at 9:37:41 AM

Well, if I'm right, she's going to be interacting with Syril this week, and I for one cannot wait to see that.

Also, rewatching the first arc, it's amazing how much this first season is shaping up to be like that meme with the dominoes of increasing size, starting with "Cassian is harassed by two Corp Sec guards for no reason" On second thought it would probably start with "Cassian looks for his sister" and ends with "The Galactic Empire recognizes the threat of an organized Rebellion".

Edited by Vlad3163 on Oct 24th 2022 at 9:45:27 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285: Oct 24th 2022 at 11:24:29 AM

Personally I've no issue with the OT being retconned by series like this. It was made back in the 70s and 80s, a different world, a different perspective, and not one made with this sort of show in mind. Hell I'd be completely cool with a wholesale remake, to modern standards, of the originals. Won't happen obviously but I'd not object.

Mind you, part of the enduring appeal of Star Wars is the depiction of the resistance of tyranny and evil with good and nobility. That like Star Trek, Star Wars takes the view that democracy is not equal to fascism but its superior and that a conflict is not Black-and-Gray Morality but Black-and-White Morality.

That to resist evil does not make you sink to its depths.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#286: Oct 24th 2022 at 2:21:06 PM

I'm only rooting for Deedra insofar as I think she has the potential to make a really interesting Big Bad to intellectually match the Rebellion.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#287: Oct 24th 2022 at 3:49:44 PM

Yeah, so far she's the only Imperial that knows what's going on and is actually thinking, rather than reacting.

Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#288: Oct 25th 2022 at 8:23:57 PM

I think Dedra's in the same "competent and not outwardly evil" boat as Yularen before his Andor appearance. He was smart and cool working with the protagonists in Clone Wars and the Thrawn novels. First thing he does in this show is discuss cracking down hard on the Galaxy — like, oh, right. He's not a good guy.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#289: Oct 25th 2022 at 8:38:57 PM

That's kind of what I mean when I said a couple of weeks earlier that this show feels like anti-copaganda? In another work the plucky and intelligent officer poking her nose into a suspicious case and being validated could be the protagonist. But wait, space fascists. (Maybe Syril Karn: Mall Cop: Severance Edition will also fail upwards, but he's in full pathetic failson mode right now.)

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 25th 2022 at 10:39:13 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#290: Oct 25th 2022 at 8:57:23 PM

It's very interesting that Karn wanted to investigate a case the leads wanted to bury and this is shown absolutely to have been a bad thing for everyone.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Krory Since: Aug, 2012
#291: Oct 25th 2022 at 10:17:35 PM

My favorite thing about Karn's raid is that he didn't actually do anything wrong. Everything his team did was by the book and technically correct, they just didn't know they were facing Protagonists.

Edited by Krory on Oct 25th 2022 at 10:17:48 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#292: Oct 25th 2022 at 10:20:43 PM

I dunno, I'd say they started by throwing around in a hostile environment.

It was not their territory and their authority wasn't respected.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 25th 2022 at 10:21:13 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#293: Oct 25th 2022 at 10:55:54 PM

I still love the moment where his superior immediately deduces that since the two were corrupt cops with a history of that behavior, they were likely attempting a shakedown of a civilian that went backwards, and decides they're not worth looking into for that reason.

He does so for pragmatic reasons, but it's an interesting example of the authority figure choosing not to go to bat for his corrupt underlings, while Syril goes after it (and overzealously, at that) anyway, because even if they were scumbags who were abusing their power on the backs of the people and then brought their fates on themselves, the power of the CSec was threatened by the mere fact that they were killed.

It's a trait that will probably make him go far in the Empire. Blind devotion to authority before reason.

[up] To add to this, Syril didn't even bother to coordinate with the locals. He just plopped a squadron of troops into a civilized area and expected everyone there to fall in line with his manhunt - at which point the people, understandably threatened and confused, bristled at his presence. Heck, at that point in time he didn't even have any evidence Cassian was the guy he was looking for - just that he was a person from Kinari.

It's a fun contrast, because when the Empire did the same thing before and afterwards the cruelty they brought with them forced the people underfoot. But the populace had no problem showing how little respect they had for CSec trying to bring that same hammer down.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 25th 2022 at 11:01:37 AM

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#294: Oct 26th 2022 at 12:26:00 AM

Syril has an absolute respect for rules to an almost Black-and-White Insanity level and just expects everyone else to be the same.... Which backfired badly.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#295: Oct 26th 2022 at 5:53:41 AM

[up][up]

And in most shows, "Yes, they were bad people but deserved justice" would be an admirable trait.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Carpo Beakless Duck from The Pond Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Beakless Duck
#296: Oct 26th 2022 at 6:34:15 AM

we are two-thirds of the way through season 1! The look on Dedra's face when Karn said that he was made to sign the report without reading it

Quack?
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#297: Oct 26th 2022 at 7:59:30 AM

[up][up] It’s not presented as such in this one, though. In particular, due to the nature of their death, Syril’s actions aren’t really akin to giving them justice: he doesn’t even investigate the way they died. He just goes militantly after who he thinks might be the murderer without context.

Syril actually strikes me as a a parody of cop killer panic, where cops tend to go to extremes when one of their own is threatened in a way they tend not to for the general populace, occasionally leading to thuggishness and gang-life behavior. Syril never really comes off as caring about the people who died themselves, so much as he is offended that someone would challenge the authority of CSec, and most of his later actions line up with that.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 26th 2022 at 8:00:08 AM

EruditeEsotericist Since: May, 2015
#298: Oct 26th 2022 at 8:02:58 AM

I really liked this episode, a lot.

There's serious Holocaust vibes with Cassian's incarceration. These prisoners are relatively high level, in that they're kept in hygienic conditions and are well fed. This isn't a death camp, the labour they're doing is something the Empire genuinely needs. I suspect Death Star construction. They're also all human, so I assume alien prisoners are elsewhere and are subjected to far worse punishment.

There's definitely a Panopticon thing going on too. It's quite clever on the Empire's part, creating that genuine sense of competitive spirit that limits the extent to which the prisoners will help each other outside of very small units (which are in themselves ostensibly no threat - seven against hundreds is nothing), and gets work done that really does need doing. Of course, it's still abhorrent and dehumanising, especially when the sentencing is clearly unfair.

Definitely the start of an arc, and an intriguing one.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#299: Oct 26th 2022 at 10:22:18 AM

We just saw a fucking suicide. But either way it was an interesting episode. More character-building, how the Rebellion is affecting everyone and the various difficulties that the galaxy's myriad rebel factions were dealing with before they actually got to unite. Interesting that the ISB isn't taking Karn's expertise into account, but oooooooh, at first I didn't think Dedra would find anything on Ferrix but she proved me wrong. Luthen had the right idea to shut it down though. The prison is also interesting (weird that Andy Serkis is just there XD) but still, interesting. I also wonder what they're making. Also a nice bit of foreshadowing that there's also something going on with the other prisoners with those hand-signals during shift change. I wonder what their plan is for getting around the control device.

uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#300: Oct 26th 2022 at 11:04:38 AM

I'm starting to think that Mon Mothmas husband might end up being a bit of a red hering and her daughter is actually plotting something. It is starting to get notable how she keeps popping up in these social events like she's evesdropping.

Some heavy prison industrial complex stuff going on, with the really oppressive athmosphere and the depressing likelyhood of this actually being one of the nicest imperial prisons, with it being seemingly human only. I did notice the hand signs, so some secret rebel activity might be going on here.

Also Melshi is another minor character from the Rouge One movie, wierd how that name somehow stuck with me.


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