Cleanup: Best Known For The Fanservice

To-do list:

• Remove Porn/Hentai/Ecchi works that are intended to be racy.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:46:44 PM

Anyway, I think we can include the second category ("Very well-known risque content but not the only well known aspect") and and fourth category ("Was the best-known thing during promo/early on, no longer is") of examples alongside the first category ("Risque content that is the best known element of the work") examples and get rid of the rest. We could file it under Tropes Are Flexible (even if being an Audience Reaction means it isn't actually a trope).

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 22nd 2022 at 5:56:05 AM

First I'd question if we really need this trope, due to nature of the fandoms, this can virtually apply to any work. And by the sound of it, it's effectively "Fanservice Signature Scene". Unless we set some sort of no-gushing notable reaction bar that would make it apply to specific works.

If we keep it, how would it be described briefly and what would be standard criteria? Three categories is kinda of vague.

Based on what you said, I suppose getting rid of it (maybe redirecting it to Fanservice in the process, similarly to how You Gotta Have Blue Hair was redirected to Hair Colors) could be an option.

I would say that it can and should only apply to cases of intentional fanservice within the work itself- Self-Fanservice is right out. Second, if we do keep this, ecchi works should also be banned since the fanservice is either the whole point or one of the big draws.

In other words, I feel that this should be limited to cases where the fanservice is a minor part of the overall work- say, a single scene or character- while being the most well-known part of the work in most circles. It would still constitute something notable because of the disproportionate focus on what is, again, a minor part of the work to the exclusion of the aspects given focus by the work itself.

Restricting it to cases where the fanservice is a minor part of the work sounds reasonable.

I've thought it would be logical if we define it as "minor dirty scene gets more known the rest of the non-erotic work", I'm just concerned how does one prove its actually more known, unless there's backlash with it.

Edited by Amonimus on May 22nd 2022 at 12:30:40 PM

We can keep it clean of horny gushing and restrict it to works where fanservice plays a minor part. There's significance to this trope as it says something about the work when the only part that's known about it is fanservice. The fanservice must be shocking, or out of place, or maybe the work is too boring it gave people something to discuss, etc.

The proof is that it's the fanservice the first thing ppl bring up when the work is mentioned. Many works have reputation, for example Game of Thrones has lots of nudity and sex scenes.

Edited by selkies on May 22nd 2022 at 4:12:54 PM

Nowadays, GOT is far more known for going downhill in the last season.

From the unclear list, I can speak from what I know that DIDNapper shouldn't qualify as it was created with the specific intent of appealing to people with a certain fetish.

So... I'm not sure it would qualify for this trope on those grounds.

Then again, I'm not exactly sure if this trope is needed, I'd argue the objective and less problematic Sex Sells, while not exactly covering the same bases, fills a similar niche with far fewer issues.

The difference is that Sex Sells is about intentionally using fanservice to sell a product, whereas this is about an unintentional reaction where a single scene overshadows everything else about a work.

I'm aware they don't overlap directly, my main point was that Sex Sells is fully functional because it's objective and more specific, while this one is floundering due to being really loosely defined and subjective.

to removing ecchi examples. Like how Overshadowed by Controversy doesn't allow works that are purposefully trying to be controversial. From what I gather it also seems to attract a little bit of "No no no this is actually deep and mature you just don't understand"-sort of writing for things that really are just meant to be 90% fanservice/fetish material which just generally doesn't seem like a good idea to have on the wiki.

I'm not opposed to just getting rid of this, for the record. But as far as the categories go:

1. (fanservice is the only/close to the only thing anyone thinks of) IMO the first category is the only thing that actually qualifies as a distinct trope.

2. (well known fanservice but among a lot of well-known things) The difference between this and the previous category is maybe a bit blurry, but the problem is people taking genuinely well-known works and reducing them to a sex scene. You have a lot of acclaimed works that are well-known in general, and we're out here essentially saying "the only thing anyone cares about is the naked lady," which is a really bad look. Especially when it interacts with Male Gaze or Periphery Demographic stuff, where the general public and target audience have a much different impression than whatever person is being horny on main.

3. (fanservice exists but is not by any measure the best-known thing) Category 2 but even worse, anything here should go.

4. (fanservice used to be the best-known thing, isn't anymore) The fourth category is just Sex Sells, since almost all of the examples involve promo cycles.

5. (one-handed troping) Absolutely not.

I don't necessarily think intentional vs. not intentional matters unless the whole work is blatantly softcore erotica, because by definition any fanservice intentionally is there for people to find it sexy. If it doesn't exist to be noticed then it's questionable to call it fanservice at all. (that last example in the wick check, jesus)

If anything, restricting it to minor aspects of the work is more likely to attract people using it as an excuse to gush.

Edited by tropette on May 23rd 2022 at 8:15:18 AM

Also, I don't think Game of Thrones is an example at all. Yes, it has a good deal of sex. But when most people think of Game of Thrones, the sex scenes are not the primary thing that come to mind. Arguably they aren't even in the top five.

Or relatedly: HBO has a lot of racier shows than broadcast TV, and this has been pointed out before. But it's not synonymous with them, the way something like Cinemax (aka "Skinemax") is. That's the difference.

Edited by tropette on May 23rd 2022 at 8:27:12 AM

"...The only thing people care about is the naked lady..." Well, that's not what that category would be like it's mostly "that work is well known for lots of things but it had a fanservice scene that stood out the most...".

Also, I never said GoT was an example of this trope; it's an example of another point I was making about works having reputations.

So, to getting rid of this trope.

I'm currently against getting rid of it. I just mentioned that it would be an option. I'd rather tweak the definition so the fanservice has to be a minor part of the work that nevertheless happens to be well known, but perhaps there would be another way to refine the definition that I could get behind (just my $0.02; not saying this as a mod).

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 23rd 2022 at 5:33:10 AM

I see it as having three parts:

1. The racy stuff is the first thing almost everyone who is aware of the work — honestly, it might help to require citations or corroborating details here so we don't get more "many people may remember..." stuff — associates with it. Not one of many things, not something a subset of people might think of, but the first thing almost everyone thinks of, to the point where it is basically synonymous with the work;

2. The work as a whole was intended as something other than a fanservice delivery vehicle, or at least is fleshed out (no pun intended) beyond that;

3. Enough time has passed for the work to be "best known for" something.

Take Basic Instinct as an example. The moment you read that, you knew exactly why it was brought up. The scene in question absolutely was intentional and the filmmakers knew exactly what they were doing. Now, it's an actual movie, with an actual plot, legit award nominations, etc.; it isn't just porn. There were a lot of other things controversial about it at the time. But there is one clear thing that basically everyone remembers before anything else. Best known, not known.

Edited by tropette on May 23rd 2022 at 7:20:55 AM

Yes to cutting works that are basically Porn with Plot, and yes to making it so the fanservice is the first, or at least one of the first things to come to mind from the work.

Does this include the other kind of fanservice, i.e. Pandering to the Base? I would say no, but I've seen it used that way, like on The Nostalgia Critic.

i brought it up at image picking, but i feel like the image might be a part of what contributes to the misuse since it doesn't seem to be a proper example of the trope. the fanservice isn't the main thing this anime seems to be known for, it doesn't even have the trope listed on its page, so with that context the impression one can get is "this work has a lot of fanservice and that's the trope!"

Can works Best Known for the Fanservice include works best known for the Parent Service, i.e. family-friendly works Best Known for the Fanservice?

Edited by Nen_desharu on May 25th 2022 at 10:03:33 AM

I don't see why not, if it's deliberate.

Of course, it's dependent on if the show actually is best known for fanservice. Lilo and Stitch is not. Only Disney film coming to mind that might qualify is Hunchback but that's less about Esmeralda as fanservice and more about how dark her story is.

Edited by mightymewtron on May 27th 2022 at 3:18:44 PM

I guess but that's really prone to Periphery Demographic stuff. The Lilo and Stitch wick is a good example — by no means is it "best known" for anything lewd and it's extremely weird to claim otherwise.

Do we have any options for a crowner, or do we need more time to hash that out?

The discussed options so far are:

1. Exclude Porn/Hentai/Ecchi works that are intended to be racy and limit it to examples where the fanservice is a minor part of the work.

2. Cut the trope entirely.

Anything else?

Edited by selkies on May 28th 2022 at 12:46:21 PM