So we attempted a TRS
on They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot, but then had concerns that we were rushing to make major changes on a trope we never really gave a dedicated cleanup (as its sister item
has one, but Plot seems to have its own issues).
The biggest problems to clean up are people who use the item for A) complaining and B) coming up with totally new plot ideas instead of pointing out plot points that are already present in the work, just not really fulfilled. So we should try to scope out the bad examples we recognize.
EDIT: As of 1/1/2025, this thread now encompasses They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character, which has the same problems.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 1st 2025 at 9:27:05 AM
I'd like to bring up TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter.Fire Emblem Heroes and TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot.Fire Emblem Heroes.
First, some terminology
For those who don't play, Fire Emblem Heroes is nominally a Fire Emblem Massive Multiplayer Crossover lootbox-based game for smartphones. It's a Strategy RPG, the marketing of which focuses on the fact that most of the playable characters are drawn from across the Fire Emblem games, bringing them all together for the first time. Playable characters are called Heroes.
Narratively, the premise is that the player is drawn into a fantasy world loosely inspired by Norse Mythology, and they can use a magic device (initially suggested to be their smartphone) to summon Fire Emblem characters to assist them, and join up with the royal family of the Kingdom of Askr in their wars against all the other neighbouring realms. The main story mode is divided into a number of what are called Books, which in other games would probably be called seasons. Each Book consists of a series of challenge maps released over the course of a year, each of which coincides with the introduction of 4–6 new Heroes; the introduction of a new group of Heroes is called a banner. Each Book tells a self-contained story which has no impact or bearing on any of the others. Book I tells a story about the princess of Embla drawing Heroes from other worlds and compelling them to assist her in attacking Askr, while the protagonists recruit other characters to help them; the game has since made it explicit that Heroes on the player's side are not being mind-controlled and obey orders out of their own free will (no matter how little sense it makes for some of them to fight on the same side, but that's neither here nor there). All subsequent books have been exlusively about conflicts betweeh Original Generation characters, with the Fire Emblem characters in the main story being Mauve Shirts with names and unique portraits.
As well as the main story, there are also Paralogues and Xenologues, which are nominally side stories. Originally, Paralogues served to characterise the available Heroes, while Xenologues showed what the OCs were up to. As time went on, this changed to Paralogues serving to introduce seasonal variants of characters, while Xenologues tease the next Book.
There are also Forging Bonds, commonly abbreviated FB. These are one-off, time-limited events that come out when a new group of Heroes are added. Playing Forging Bonds unlocks dialogue in which the Heroes interact with each other. (The featured Heroes may or may not have been recruited, but FBs act as if they have been).
Tempest Trials is another time-limited game mode. It's a series of battles with randomly-selected maps and enemies, which rewards points that can be exchanged for various prizes, most notably new Hero variants.
Grand Hero Battles (GHB) are tough, hand-crafted battles that reward new Heroes. They coïncide with Forging Bonds.
Oh, and I should probably mention that the game has a pretty major case of Power Creep. I suspect that will be relevant later.
That out of the way, let's crack on.
Characters
Gameplay-wise
- Lucius's regular and Young variants being revealed to be staff-users. In his home game, Lucius was a Monk, a magical class that used light magic, and he was a high-tier unit, due to having impressive Magic, Speed, and Resistance stats as well as good availability. Granted, he does get staves upon promotion, but relegating one of the most useful units in his home game to being a mere staffbot rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way.
- Similar to Lucius above, regular Lachesis being revealed to be a healer, as opposed to a Master Knight equivalent, didn't sit well with the fanbase either. Her design making her appear much younger than her home game also didn't sit well, even if her voice does her a bit more justice. However, like a lot of healers, they would become better regarded once the weapon type received a Balance Buff, but she remains one of the single worst units gameplay wise, and many fans hope she one day gets an alt that better fits her character (her Dancer alt being a good starting point).
- Continuing the trend, Tobin being revealed to be a sword user made a lot of fans angry. Considering that there's an over-saturation of sword users already, the fact that the previous Tempest Trials already rewarded an infantry sword user and many people were expecting him to be an archer or even the first Bow Cavalier, it's easy to understand why. When he was revealed to merely have an Armorslayer and some generic skills, fans were about as pleased as one might expect. At the very least, his stats are higher than other infantry units due to being classified as a villager or trainee unit like Donnel. If given enough investment, he can at least put in some work, especially after getting a weapon refine that made him much better, but he still has people who feel he really should have been an archer over anything else, especially when, after many years since his release, he has yet to receive an archer themed alt.
- Regular Seth was well-regarded in Sacred Stones as one of the single best units, since he averted the normal problems a Crutch Character had by having great base stats and great growths. Once put into Heroes, however, he showed up not using a lance, but a sword. Although some were annoyed at this, it wouldn't have been a problem if it was actually something nice, but he just comes with a Ruby Sword+, which is nothing special, since it suffers from Crippling Overspecialization — it only works well on Green Units. Not helping is that his base kit is something of a mix of Stahl's and Tempest Trials reward Clive, both of whom are extremely average at best and lack unique or powerful skills, with his only unique skill being Lukas' Fortress Defense. He also shows up in the same banner as even better units, who all bring something new to the table, making him stand out even further. Sadly, his later weapon refine did little to redeem his status in the eyes of fans, so unless he gets an alt like a Legendary, Ascended, or Rearmed Hero, he is often viewed as a poor depiction of his character.
- Many people were disappointed by the fact that Arvis was an infantry mage rather than an armored one. As of this writing, an Armored Mage variant for him has yet to be introduced. However, he's still a perfectly serviceable unit on his own and some still mention that since Arvis was a Sage in Generation 1 and he's based on Generation 1, it makes sense that he's not an Armor Mage, which he only became once Generation 2 started.
- Many fans were baffled that Garon of all people was not an armored unit despite the clear heavy armor that he has in his artwork. The fact that Christmas Tharja, Legendary Tiki, and Halloween Kagero and so on are all armored units despite not having any actual armor in their artworks doesn't help. This sentiment grew even further when Idunn, another red dragon unit, was shown to be an armored unit despite not actually wearing any armor.
- The Death Knight was a highly anticipated character for many players. His showing in his home game had Counterattack, which is Three Houses's equivalent of Distant Counter, on top of being a Lightning Bruiser, making him something of an Ensemble Dark Horse and leaving many players expecting something great out of him in his Heroes version. When he was released in Heroes, however, many players groaned in disappointment that he, outside his Close Guard, had a lackluster skill kit, on top of having his weapon Scythe of Sariel unrefined being situational due to being reliant on enemy buffs to activate, which is inconsistent and unreliable, and that he had Mighty Glacier stats, instead of his Lightning Bruiser stats like his Three Houses version, and even with his refine, he only gets additional stats and a guaranteed follow-up, which, alongside the other base effect of his weapon, get walled by Null Follow-Up effects. His lack of Distant Counter, either through his weapon or an A-Skill, was also seen as a wasted opportunity for players, even in his Grand Hero Battle, despite the skill being a Game-Breaker and highly sought after for skill inheritance in Heroes. At the end of the day, he comes off as a mediocre lance cavalier for some players, like Regular Berkut before him, with his only saving grace was his somewhat okay potential if invested in.
- Ferdinand von Aegir, one of Three Houses' more popular characters. His appearance on the third Three Houses banner was met with excitement from the community, only for it to turn to annoyance once his kit was revealed; on a banner filled with three other units with unique weapons, good stats, and either new skills or powerful kits, Ferdinand comes in with an underwhelming kit (Vanguard+ Lance, Reposition, and Fortress Defense 3), and his only unique skill is Rouse Speed/Defense, which while a good skill, makes him only decent fodder. Players hoped that at least his stats would be good, but his stats are only okay; meanwhile his fellow banner units are both busted and more unique. Part of the problem lies in the fact he was put on the banner as the 4 star demote unit, meaning he's supposed to be balanced by the fact he is available easier, and compared to many other Lance Cavaliers, he actually is overall better in terms of stats than several of them, but his incredibly generic kit, bland stats, and how weak he is compared to how insanely overpowered his banner mates are, it comes across as though he was just slapped on to make a full four banner unit. Many also were upset that none of his voice lines include him saying his memetic "I am Ferdinand von Aegir!" line. As a final nail in the coffin, more powerful Lance Cavaliers would come out that blow him out of the water, such as Petrine and Regular Ingrid.
- Legendary Dimitri. Instead of being based off of the first half of the timeskip, where is Axe-Crazy and obsessed with killing Edelgard about all, Legendary Dimitri is based off of Dimitri after chapter 17 of the Azure Moon route, where he his Character Development kicks in and he begins to revert to his old self again. Many wish that he was based off his more unhinged self, as it would make his Brave version seem like a natural progression of the character. Instead, that version of Dimitri was added as a Fallen Hero version, much to the contention of many players.
- Nemesis. Despite being an important lore figure in Three Houses, a powerful foe in the story, and having a unique skill in said game that made him difficult to fight, his showings and handling in Heroes are very disappointing. While his typing (Red Sword Infantry) makes sense, he has a weak weapon effect for his Dark Creator S (gives boost to Atk/Def based on the amount of allies with above 90% HP, and once during a player phase reduces damage from attacks by 15% per allies with above 90% hp), stats that are too focused on tanking, and he has a boring kit for his character. The fact he isn't a Legendary or Mythic hero in particular is seen as a waste, because he makes perfect sense to be one, where his weapon could be more powerful and a unique skill could be given to him that makes him stand out, but overall the community were very let down by the way he was implemented. The only silver-lining for him is that he could still get a Legendary/Mythic form since the GHB version appears to be based off his appearance as the Final Boss of the Verdant Wind route.
- For similar reasons, many players felt that the "Bite of Flame" banner was a wasted concept. While both Múspell and Rinkah made sense due to their fire theme and the lore around them, the other characters felt out of place on what was essentially a banner themed around fire and seemingly fire spirits; Lyn, though she comes from a tribe that would fit, is the worst option to represent them given her lack of connection to them for most of her story compared to anyone from the setting like Rath, Duo Tana and Peony have not only nothing really in common to make sense why they are a Duo unit, but neither have any connections to fire, and even the free Mordecai feels random to include. Despite there being characters that would fit naturally, such as Petra and Fuga, both of whom have flame spirits they reference, but even outside of the religious aspect, plenty of characters in the series are fire themed, making there potentially many different characters to put in instead.
- Scáthach. His appearance in Heroes left a lot to be desired: being Larcei's twin with access to unique skills and weapons like her, on top of how the Od lineage had been consistently treated well in Heroes, either with unique weapons, Astra variants, or being given strong stats/skills. Despite all that going for him, he came into heroes as a Mighty Glacier (high atk/def, average/below average spd), a generic kit that lacked anything unique, he has a generic, if somewhat rare, weapon, and he's on a banner themed around House Friege despite not being part of it. This left him feeling like a tacked on character who was meant to be just the newest sword demote in a long timenote , but unlike more recent demotes, who either had a new weapon or a unique one, he lacks anything to make him stand out except for his high attack and defense. He's saved from being a Low-Tier Letdown thanks to his solid stats and being a great candidate for the Arcane Éljúðnir, and being the first permanent Infantry Sword demote in years, but he's generally viewed as a wasted implementation of the character, which considering everyone else on his debut banner had tier four skills, a unique weapon, or typing, comes across as he was slapped onto the banner just so it'd have four new heroes.
- Nyna is a pivotal character in her home game, and someone some fans had wanted in FEH for a long time. Despite all these going for her, she was included as a 4-5 star infantry staff unit on a banner with characters that had far better skill sets. That would be fine if she was at least given anything unique, but she has no new skills other than the new weapon Respite+note , and what's worse, she was also put on a banner that debuted at the same time Elice, also an infantry staff, was instantly added to the 3 and 4-star pool. For a plot relevant character that could have been given more focus, she ends up being completely shafted.
- Sylvain's regular variant left a lot to be desired. For one, although he was consistently one of the most voted-for characters in Choose Your Legends ever since Three Houses characters became eligible, he was still implemented as a demote. More importantly, although he has a Hero's Relic in the Fódlan games, that being the Lance of Ruin, in Heroes, he's an axe cavalier without an exclusive weapon despite being more associated with lances, rubbing many Sylvain fans the wrong way. Although there is still the chance that Sylvain may receive an alternate version in the future that does wield the Lance of Ruin, many feel he should have had it from the start, especially since the player can only obtain it before the Time Skip in Three Houses. It doesn't help that Rearmed Ingrid being a Lance unit means that the Lance of Ruin could easily have been used by a Rearmed Sylvain, especially when Engage brought in a brand new character (Alfred) with an Arcane weapon, showing there isn't any rules for who is one or not.
These examples are all slightly different ways of saying "This character is wasted because they aren't mechanically useful", sometimes with a side order of "The update that introduced this character also introduced more mechanically useful characters". The thing is, all non-OC Heroes have equal story relevance, which is to say none, since the game is built on lootboxen and it's bad design to die story development to random chance.
To reïterate, none of these characters are wasted. They might not be as uber-powerful as their fans want, but that's an entirely separate issue.
However, that section does have two examples which do seem valid.
- While the Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE characters do their best to replicate their home game as best they can considering the Genre Shift, they did waste a very good opportunity to have the characters and/or their Mirages interact with their counterparts. This especially sticks out because the banner would have greatly benefited from a Forging Bonds event, which could have given audiences a chance to experience the characters better, but instead the interactions were left to only unit dialogue and any future dialogue.
- Many view the Dark Desert Rituals banner as all but missed potential. The banner is ostensibly based on Plegia and its culture, but only has one character from Plegia in Tharja, accompanied by two characters only distantly related to Plegianote and three others without any connection to Plegia. This in spite of the wealth of Plegian characters from which to choose, including Henry, who at that time hadn't had an alt since Halloween 2017; Gangrel, the Mad King of Plegia, and Validar, who has yet to appear as playable in Heroes at all.
These actually speak to how the characters could have been used better in service of the story, so I think they can stay.
Story
- Even if a character gets into a banner (typically a Special Heroes banner), there is a chance that they are not given any speaking roles in the main story/paralogues they appear in, which could make for this trope. Priscilla and Tailtiu are examples of these in the banners they appear in, but most egregiously, Elincia, Nephenee, and Oscar got this treatment in their own main story banner despite all being featured on it.
This one sounds valid but I don't think it is. Even the Heroes with speaking roles only say a generic line or two in story mode, which is only infinitesimally better than no dialogue at all.
- Book III is notoriously guilty of this, due to the way the story was structured, only Alfonse and his Alternate Self Líf are given importance, leaving the rest of the Book III characters in the dust. For specifics:
- Once each book ends, the playable unit introduced in said arc gets thrown to the side to make way for a new character who takes the spotlight for the new arc. Fjorm, Eir, Peony, and Reginn were relegated to only Forging Bond cameos and seasonal alts once Books II, III, IV, and V ended, despite the fact they have unique personalities and could contribute to the plot. While Fjorm has some amount of justification due to her Secretly Dying, Eir has no such justification and simply vanishes from the story after. While this may be due to wanting to avoid bloating the cast, its a waste of what are unique characters, all of whom could contribute in some form to the story. Book V having Peony and Fjorm make a cameo notably caught players off guard for this very reason, and soon, the developers continued the story of Book II where it last left off with the "Ice & Flame" Tempest Trials series and Book III with the "Life and Death" Tempest Trials series.
- Thrasir is an alternate version of Veronica, but older and under Hel's rule. With that, you'd think there'd be some interesting interactions between her and Veronica as well as the rest of the Order when they learn this and see how different she is from her younger counterpart and whether or not she's still affected by Embla's Curse. However, unlike Líf who has several chapters focused on him, Thrasir has only one chapter dedicated to her and even then, not much is learned about her before she's unceremoniously killed off. Thankfully, this was rectified with the Valentine variant of Thrasir alongside Líf, where Thrasir talks about herself what she was like being younger to "Líf", as well as Thrasir interacting with Veronica in the end of the "Lost to Love" Tempest Trials+ in February 2021, and a heartwarming moment at that.
- Hel herself was subjected to this in her own book. In comparison to Veronica, Surtr, Freyja, Eitri, and Embla, after traveling to the alternate Askr, Hel ended up getting sidelined like the above Book III characters, as the rest of the story focused on Alfonse and Líf, only appearing to remind Eir of her mission to betray the Order of heroes. It wouldn't be until the very last chapter after Líf is dead that she came back to face the Order again, but by then, it was far too late and she was immediately disposed off, leaving less of an impact than her fellow Book villians. Even after her book was over, she was left out in the alt department, whereas the other Book villains (barring Eitri) received at least one alt (Those being Pirate Surtr, Summer Freyja, and Veronica's Easter and Valentine's variants).
This has rather a lot of cruft, but with some rephrasing I think it actually fits.
- Triandra ended up in a very similar boat to Thrasir. Near the end of Book 4, Plumeria's final chapter broke the mold of FEH's story by adding relevant story progression to all five gameplay chapters. As a result, Plumeria received notably more exploration and development into her personality than most other FEH characters. This led to expectations of Triandra receiving the same treatment – only for the story to revert to its more simplistic style, with only two or three of the chapters having relevant story dialogue and the remaining chapters essentially consisting of the new banner Heroes spouting random quotes. Triandra doesn't even die in the climax of her chapter, which is instead dedicated to the reveal of Alfonse actually being the summoner. Because of this reversion, her development and her subplot with Peony comes off as notably underdeveloped and rushed, especially compared to Plumeria who got a lot of love from the story in the prior chapter.
Nope. As written, this example is just complaining that a character didn't get development or focus, but doesn't say anything about what interesting potential was squandered.
- Nótt is an egregious case of this. After having only one chapter dedicated to her and Dagr, the Jötunheimr princesses became Out of Focus during the course of Book V, focusing more on the characters from Niðavellir, especially Fáfnir. As the princesses were underdeveloped, most people thought they would have much more significant focus in a future book...only for Chapter 12 to drop where Nótt suddenly dies protecting Dagr from Fáfnir, leaving Dagr as the only Jötunheimr princess left to take the throne. Not only did this feel like an Ass Pull as there was absolutely no foreshadowing leading up to this event, but it also enraged fans of Nótt who either preferred her over Dagr, wished to see more of her character arc with Dagr, or both.
Again, this doesn't explain what interesting potential was wasted; as written, it just seems to be complaining about bad writing.
- While Book VI tries to wrap up the plot threads established in the first book, several characters end up getting the short end of the stick. Similarly to Book III, only Veronica, Letizia, and Embla feel like they are given importance, while the rest are barely given anything to do. For specifics:
- Ash, despite being billed as the deuteragonist of the book like Fjorm, Eir, and other new characters, has very little to do in the story, sometimes not even appearing in chapters at all. Her ability to undo Embla's sealing magic at the cost of her limbs is only brought up once, and her relationship with Askr is not mentioned until his death. She has no real stakes in the story aside from being Askr's messenger essentially, and even though she later is given a degree of importance when Askr dies, the story focuses almost entirely on Veronica over Ash. Even the developers seem to be somewhat aware of this, as she was replaced by Veronica on the game's icon after the book VI midpoint update.
- Elm receives no characterization or backstory outside of brief mentions of his Undying Loyalty to Embla despite being a major antagonist since the start of the book. He comes across as a noticeable Flat Character in a game that is noted for giving its villains, especially those serving the Big Bad, strong characterization. Worse, as soon as Letizia is beaten, he immediately helps get Embla into the story, giving himself no time to really do anything aside from attacking the heroes on occasion.
- Out of all the new characters, Askr probably suffered the hardest. Being named after the nation Alfonse and Sharena hail from, as well as seemingly being the creator of Breidablik and coming off as a cheery Team Dad, he seemed ripe for interactions with his people, Embla and the Summoner as well as lore on the ancient relic among other details. However, not does he never interact with the Player Character once throughout his appearance, his presence only lasts for a mere 2 chapters before he kicks the bucket to give everyone the MacGuffin needed to remove Embla’s influence on her people, at most getting a heartfelt moment with Ash before he dies.
- Bruno ended up becoming this for some after Chapter 11. After spending several out of game years being Out of Focus save a few moments, he finally becomes important again, getting some Character Development, the player getting to see his face, and him even rejoining the Order Of Heroes again, and being purged of his blood curse. Then he's promptly killed off, rendering his and the main character's efforts to help him All for Nothing.
This bit looks salvageable, but could probably do with some rephrasing.
- Despite being advertised as protagonists, Anna and Sharena get very little plot relevance after Book II, compared to Alfonse and Veronica. While Sharena is notorious for having plot lines around her that go nowhere (Books III and IV being notable standouts), Anna has received no major characterization in the main story and does not even appear in a majority of the marketing for the game's story despite being the one who summoned forth the Player Character in the first place.
Marketing isn't part of the product.
Plot
- Forging Bonds typically focus on the 4 units of New Heroes banner, giving players a better look into their characters and interactions with the Order and other Heroes. This doesn't include corresponding GHB units and while characters such as Iago and Death Knight wouldn't fit into the main stories of these events, others such as Rutger, Cormag and Heath could've in some form and yet are never seen anywhere in them, depriving players of seeing more of them.
This makes sense, but is too general.
- Book I's last sections of story focused on the curse that the Emblian family suffered from that drove them to become Ax-Crazy, and ended with Bruno leaving to find a cure for him and Veronica. While Bruno has indeed been gone trying to find it, the curse itself has never been spoken of or mentioned by Veronica again, leaving it unclear if it just hasn't occurred, or if its been forgotten/ignored by the writers. Jarringly, Veronica has, in person, worked with Askr twice now (Book III and Book IV) and has never once implied she felt an unnatural urge to kill them, nor shows any signs of being unable to control herself. It comes across as them silently removing it once Veronica became popular to justify her importance and working with the heroes. It would take until Book VI for them to address this plot point again.
Yeah, I think this example is valid.
- Book III had alot of it, more so than any other book:
- In the lead up to Book III, a paralogue has Surtr revived by Hel in order to act as a tool for her to use. With the early part of Book III showing that Hel could revive the dead to add to her army, this made it seem like previously slain villains could be revived as soldiers for Hel's armies. Despite this, and an example of this being done by having Gustav appear as an enemy, Hel never does this and Gustav is the only named character to have this happen to them. And even then, it only happened exactly once before he disappeared, meaning neither Gustav nor this plot point were ever brought up again. This idea would instead be used in Book IV, as some previously fought characters are brought back as nightmares to stop the heroes, but as they are simply fake copies, it lacks the same weight that a revived one of them would have.
- Book III had the Heroes fought being a part of Hel's undead army. Not only is it never made clear if the Heroes fought were indeed brought back from the dead, given the theme of fighting an undead army, the game never uses this to its advantage to have any kind of banners based around the concept of undead heroes or heroes who fell but came back in some way. For example, Orson, a Fallen Hero of Renais who betrayed the heroes to revive his wife, the Duma Faithful, and the Dreadlords would naturally have fit into any banner given each one has some connection to the undead or being zombies. Instead, nothing is done with the concept.
- In Book III, much emphasis in the opening cinematic was put on Sharena being murdered by Hel. We later find out that this is an alternate universe version of her, whose brother became Líf, but while Líf himself credits his turn to darkness with her death, he never mentions her again after the book ends, and his playable forms have more to say on Alfonse and the Summoner than Sharena. While it's justifiable that Líf goes out of his way not to interact with Sharena directly, since he hesitates to attack her and simply speaking to the main universe Sharena in Chapter 12 is enough to make him question his goals, Sharena herself also doesn't have much of a reaction to dying, nor is any focus given to how she feels after Líf is defeated, despite Alfonse himself having moments to reflect upon what he could have become. Unfortunately, this lack of focus for Sharena just turns her into Collateral Angst that adds nothing to neither her character nor her familial relationship to Alfonse.
Looks valid.
- Over the course of Book IV, it's implied that Sharena may actually not be the real Sharena, as various moments within the story have her recalling things like swapping clothes with a similar girl hair-wise to herself, her thinking she drank some kind of nectar that is referenced later as turning children into Fairies, and in general her having slight memory issues during the arc. Combined with Peony having a similar hair color, moments of being unable to remember past events like her, and even somewhat similar personality as Sharena, it seemed the story was going to drop a big reveal that either Sharena was actually an álfr, or perhaps Peony and Sharena had swapped places when she was a child, and thus Peony was the real Sharena. Instead Sharena eventually remembers and outright confirms she never drank the nectar, and at the end of Book IV both Sharena and Peony shrug and say that ultimately it doesn't matter who is who because "they were both so alike". While it's still good Sharena is given focus after being Demoted to Extra for Book II and Book III, the twist is seen as a missed opportunity by fans who were hoping for an interesting new plot angle that would allow for Sharena to develop, since having her and Peony be swapped would have given some interesting new plot angles going forward, allowed Alfonse to show how close he is to her by perhaps reaffirming it doesn't matter to him, etc.
No valid. The mystery about Sharena possibly being a changeling is a thread that runs through all of Book IV, and then in the end it turns out she isn't. The plot wasn't wasted; this example is just complaining about how it was ultimately resolved
- The penultimate chapter of Book IV reveals that the Alfonse traveling with the heroes is actually the Summoner who dreamed themselves as Alfonse because Alfonse was killed by Alfaðör as punishment for defeating Hel. This opened the possibility of the Summoner and Sharena having to deal with or reverse Alfonse's death, giving Anna and Sharena the spotlight after both have been Out of Focus for most of the story, and presents an interesting plot angle for the next book. However the very next chapter reveals Alfonse is alive and well, turning Freyja's claim about his death into a Motivational Lie. Fans were upset with how quickly this plot thread was dropped after how amazing of a twist it was, and how it would finally give lasting consequences on the actions of the previous stories, rather than each Book having the same beginning and end as each other, with no major change between any of them whatsoever.
I'm on the fence about this one but leaning towards keep.
- In Book VI, the appearance of Fallen Gustav in Chapter 7. There are a lot of possible interesting interactions with him in the story of Book VI since he was mention in a previous chapter, including his interactions with his children in the Order of Heroes, the fact that he has to fight again as a zombie and has to ask Alfonse to take him down again, how he was under the control of Letizia and the possibility that she could learn the ins and outs of Askr culture and its royalty through him and that Alfonse killed him in Book III, as mentioned in Book VI Chapter 5. Instead, he just delivers a single line in his introduction Chapter part and fights just like another mook on a later one. What's more jarring is that they chose to play Hel's theme for his line.
This is really a case of They Wasted A Perfectl Good Character, but I do think it fits under that section.
Edited by VampireBuddha on Jul 30th 2023 at 10:31:45 AM
Ukrainian Red CrossI think Sharena's Book IV plot should stay. It's set up as a major plotline throughout the book with tons of foreshadowing, culminating in a revel that breaks Sharena psychologically. And then it's resolved by Sharena just saying "eh it doesn't matter anyways". If I remember correctly the "resolution" was just crammed into a tiny aside in a chapter about something completely different, as if the writers went "oh shit we have to finish this thing before the end".
I don't think it belongs. The trope is about stories that are set up, but then not followed through. Sharena possibly being a changeling is brought up, but, and this is the critical point, it is followed through on. It's a storyline that runs throughout Book IV. The complaints are all about how the ending was handled, which is not this trope; that makes it a "Shaggy Dog" Story, and might also warrant a place on Audience-Alienating Ending.
Zuma's Fear has this:
- He Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
- Zuma's human parents fell prey to this because they were murdered by Damian Stone in Zuma's past when they could've been major characters in the fanfic. They Probably will be used soon, though.
- Ryan could also be this, also murdered, but this time by his abusive owner who intentionally drowned him.
I don't think either example is an example of this trope, and the first one even argues with itself. It also doesn't say how or why they were wasted.
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Honestly I think Anti-Climax fits better than those two.
Edited by Druplesnubb on Aug 8th 2023 at 12:42:31 PM
Reposting this from The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure:
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: In Azure, after Dieter declares his desire for Crossbell independence at the trade conference, Crossbell holds a referendum to gather citizen opinions on the idea of independence. However, the game never shows what the SSS members voted for, assuming the referendum allows CPD and CGF members to participate. It would have been interesting to see if the SSS members have different opinions on the referendum or if any of them regret their vote after Dieter reveals exactly how he plans to achieve independence. Additionally, giving the player a chance to choose Lloyd's vote could have made a good example of What the Hell, Player? by showing them that they're not immune to propaganda. As it stands, the only character through which this conflict is explored is Noel, who rejoins the CGF shortly before the independence declaration and consequently has a temporary Face–Heel Turn due to believing she can't back out from supporting the Crois administration despite sharing Lloyd's misgivings about their actions.
They argue
that it is just a potential moment for character building as opposed to a whole plotline being wasted. Never thought about that possible disqualifier before but it makes sense. Thoughts about it?
This is on Big Mouth:
- Having just three hormone monsters and some inconsistency regarding who can and cannot see them, instead of giving each character their own, unique hormone monster matched to their personality and deciding if only that character can see them or if every character going through puberty can see them or if everyone can see them. Later seasons try to fix this by introducing more hormone monsters like Mona and Tyler.
I think this was written earlier in the series, and the entry itself admits they leaned more into personalizing the hormone monsters later on. The inconsistency is still there, but the spinoff show is far more consistent when it comes to who can see what monsters.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.I think that's misuse anyway since it's one of those "the show should have done this entirely different thing" entries.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallFor the FEH stuff, I think removing the playable characters is fine. In retrospect, they didn't belong there, and it complaining.
I agree with the Sharena example, because as much as I think it is a wasted plot, based on definitions, it is "resolved", even if I feel it isn't actually concluded, if that makes sense?
I think any "This banner had an interest premise, but the choices for it were not explored" angle that some were written on are closer to "wasted plots", though it depends on the entry and what the argument is.
Muramasa got.From YMMV.End Of The Spider Verse:
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Shathra corrupting Spider-People and turning them against their allies could have been used for tragedy or a hero-versus-hero plot (perhaps over whether to rebuild the Great Web as it was or in Shathra's image, a conflict between freedom and order). As it is the corrupted spiders are just used as mooks and have little in the way of interactions with the heroes or relevance to the plot.
So, instead of The Big Bad unleashing The Corruption on Spider-Man's Alliance of Alternates and using them as Elite Mooks, the alternates should have been the focus of a more in-depth story.
Is that a valid example?
It sounds valid to me because it's referring to an interesting concept that isn't used for anything new or out of the ordinary. The decorative part is at the very least building off something that's there for examples of how it could be interesting.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Found this on YMMV.The Legend Of Zelda Tears Of The Kingdom which I am unsure of
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The reveal that Zelda traveled to the distant past and then became the Light Dragon to restore the Master Sword is a momentous and shocking reveal. However, other than being the method to retrieve the blade itself, very little is done with this plot point during the present day. Firstly, if you have completed the Geoglyph quest beforehand, there is no way to inform any of the Sages or settlement leaders that the Zelda causing the regional phenomena is likely a fake, although this can be excused by the game's nonlinear nature, and once the Phantom Ganon masquerading as Zelda is defeated, they eventually realize that she's been sent to the past. But even after this happens, there is still no way to inform most important characters about Zelda's transformation into a dragon. Not even Traysi, the newspaper editor actively leading the effort to investigate Zelda's whereabouts, can be informed after her questline is completed. The only character privy to the Geoglyph reveals is Impa, and even then she doesn't justify the lack of publicity to the information by telling Link to keep it a secret, only musing if there is a way to change Zelda back. The rest of the Sages and Purah are informed eventually as shown in the bonus ending, but it's offscreen and well after Zelda has transformed back to her true self, meaning they never react to the prospect of her eternally remaining a dragon.
Also bumping x7
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I had a look at the YMMV section of Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks? and found that the entry seems more complaining about the premise than any neglected plot points.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The very idea of exploring an Isekai setting based in an MMORPG is nothing new, but has the potential to be extremely deep and rich if the lore and write-up is done right. The actual novel itself, though, only seems to rely on the game as an excuse as to why the players are there fighting the monsters as they are. There is no exploration of the game mechanics, how players interact with them and the bearings they have on the plot at large à la Sword Art Online, and actual story content is threadbare and disjointed. It doesn't even really work as a game setting, as games have to have rules and balancing if they're to be fair and believable, while gameplay in the story is deliberately designed poorly to favor a subset of players for no discernible reason than a gag, which is the deconstruction of isekai protagonists being The Ace. Nothing would have changed plot-wise had all of the game-related aspects been removed, as their presence in the story is just fluff. In fact, removing the constraints of a game setting would give the author even more leg room to wiggle without breaking the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, since it still has the makings of a standard isekai plot.
I'm pretty sure complaining that an aspect of the premise is underexplored counts, right?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.I don't know. The example spends too much time saying what the series isn't instead of what it is. It never mentions any specific element that might have been more interesting if the series had spent more time on it. The argument that the plot "has the potential to be extremely deep and rich if the lore and write-up is done right" says nothing to me and could easily be applied to any other series ever. I said to cut it.
Edited by SoyValdo7 on Aug 22nd 2023 at 2:58:24 AM
Valdo@ Vampire Buddha: Meant to reply sooner, sorry about that!
I think the suggested ones are good, main thing would be removing the gameplay focused entries since they aren't really good examples after reviewing what the trope means and how they are handled. If anything, Tainted by the Preview works better if needed.
I think making the adjustments discussed for FEH is good as a starting point.
Muramasa got.
x6 I think that example is valid. I didn't add that example but I agree that the apart from being a shocking reveal nothing's really done with that plot in Tears of the Kingdom. It was pretty jarring how little it mattered in the end with how many NPCs were looking for Zelda and how an evil doppelganger was roaming around, as well as how often it was emphasized that the transformation was permanent yet is solved very easily in the ending cutscene.
Edited by PhiSat on Aug 23rd 2023 at 11:33:58 AM
Oissu!Thoughts on these entries from YMMV.The Angry Video Game Nerd?:
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot:
- When reviewing Jack Bros. for the Virtual Boy, the AVGN never touches on how the three titular Bros. are actually demons from the Shin Megami Tensei series, with Jack Frost being its central mascot. While Persona 3 and Persona 4 were still in the realm of Cult Classic in the west before the series exploded in popularity in the 2010s, a lot of his mostly western viewers were left in the dark about the greater significance these three characters had, the video never touching on the greater franchise they were a part of. But to be fair the version of the game he was looking at was in Japanese (due to the U.S. version being expensive and rare) so it's not surprising James didn't make the connection.
- The Nerd was all set to review Cool Spot and Yo! Noid at the beginning of the Pepsiman episode but was forced to review Pepsiman instead. It would've been interesting to hear what the Nerd had to say about those two games.
- As mentioned on a James & Mike Mondays episode, James wishes that the Batman & Robin Play Station game could've been part of the Batman two-part review back in 2008, but he and Mike didn't know about it back then.
- A missed opportunity is on the Robocop episode, where he doesn't cover the Xbox version (though it also came out on PC and other consoles overseas), a notoriously bad game made by the same people who made Superman 64.
- The Shrek episode only reviews the Game Boy Color fighting game Shrek: Fairy Tale Freakdown before launching into a parody of The Wicker Man (1973) mostly built out of old Shrek memes, when the movie series inspired many other unworthy games, most notably the one based on the first movie that was an Xbox launch title (and got a later port for the GameCube).
- In the Terminator 1 episode some people were disappointed that James didn't look at the Sega Genesis game by "Virgin"(who also did the Sega CD version that James enjoyed) as it's considered one of the better Terminator games.
Several of these don’t seem like things set up but not followed upon, but the Pepsiman example I’m unsure about because it said what the main game being reviewed would be beforehand.
- I don't think number 1 is an example.
- I remember this setup. This could be a keeper. I'm guessing Yo Noid will be covered later because of Yo Noid 2.
- 3 and 4 are What Could Have Been
- 5 and 6 weren't set up, so doesn't really count.
Edited by PhiSat on Aug 24th 2023 at 1:21:48 PM
Oissu!These are very weird examples. The Angry Video Game Nerd reviews games, and typically a review doesn't have a continuing story; it's just him giving his opinion on a certain game. So how can you say they wasted a plot? It isn't even true to say that James missed the chance to review Cool Spot because he can still do it; there's nothing stopping him. I would prefer to cut them altogether.
Edited by SoyValdo7 on Aug 24th 2023 at 1:55:28 PM
Valdo

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