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Thor: Love and Thunder

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MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#201: May 24th 2022 at 8:12:39 AM

Given that we know Bast actually exists now, I wonder what she would think about what's going on in Wakanda and Egypt right now?

[up] Yeah, but...Phastos is black man, and Makkari is a non-white woman. I'm pretty sure the Greeks would be smart enough to tell the difference between them and the white males who are the actual gods.

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 24th 2022 at 8:15:33 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#202: May 24th 2022 at 8:17:33 AM

Would they?

How frequently do you think Farmer Achires personally meets Hephaestus, God of the Forge?

Keeping in mind that, more often than not, directly interacting in any sort of way with a Greek god is typically a bad thing that will probably ruin your life if not outright kill you. This is not a very friendly pantheon.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 24th 2022 at 8:20:33 AM

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Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#203: May 24th 2022 at 8:32:47 AM

Percy Jackson rules: they can look like whatever they want.

Hades rules: Greece is on the Mediterranean sea and was probably more multicultural than you think.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#204: May 24th 2022 at 8:42:30 AM

One scene I distinctly remember from the first Thor movie (because I actually liked the first Thor movie) is Selvig digging through a children's picture book looking up old Norse myths. The heavy implication I got through that film was that in the MCU Norse mythology, like the actual mythology created by Nordic peoples, still exists but it just doesn't match 1:1 with the "real" Asgardian gods and history.

Everything's relative, baby. And that's including the "Olympians vs. Eternals" chestnut that keeps cracking up.

Edited by Watchtower on May 24th 2022 at 11:42:59 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#205: May 24th 2022 at 8:54:27 AM

Y'know, I wouldn't mind if Erik Selvig came back. It might not be Stellan Skarsgård's best role, but he seemed to enjoy it, and he's stated he wouldn't mind coming back.

Plus, with Jane now a goddess, and Darcy busy solving mysteries with Jimmy Woo, we need someone to keep Thor grounded.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#206: May 24th 2022 at 8:57:47 AM

Do we need someone to keep him grounded? The first movie and The Dark World both tried to keep Thor's boots planted firmly on the ground, while Ragnarok let him run wild as a cosmic ubergod whose every act shakes the heavens. I think we can all agree that Ragnarok was the best Thor film.

I think it's fine to just let Thor be the God of Thunder, for all that entails.

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MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#207: May 24th 2022 at 9:02:15 AM

I mean...true, the first and second films aren't exactly the best of what we could've gotten. But the whole thing about Thor is that he learns about humanity and what makes them better than most divine beings.

And even if he doesn't appear in another Thor movie, I'm sure Selvig could prove of use in other areas...

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 24th 2022 at 9:02:53 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#208: May 24th 2022 at 9:05:57 AM

When Skarsgard was first cast a decade ago, I briefly thought he was going to be Avengers-Guardians Of The Galaxy supervillain Korvac.

Hypothetically, it'd be fairly simple to composite Selvig with Korvac as a way to get Stellan Skarsgard a juicier role.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#209: May 24th 2022 at 9:08:12 AM

[up] I feel like with Baron Harkonnen, Stellan's got a pretty cool and beefy role already. Plus, I like him as just a regular guy.

Maybe we could give Korvac to Alexander though.

Edited by MatthewWayne on May 24th 2022 at 9:08:21 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#210: May 24th 2022 at 1:20:41 PM

[up][up][up] He already learned the value of humanity.

Now we can move on from that and focus on the cool stuff.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#211: May 24th 2022 at 1:24:03 PM

I wonder what Gorr's motivation is. (In the mcu, at least)

Or could it be that one day he got up, and he said "I wanted to kill the gods"?

Edited by JoLuRo075 on May 24th 2022 at 1:24:51 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#212: May 24th 2022 at 1:47:28 PM

I'd figure the same motivation as his comic self: grew up in a land that relied on divine aid but divine aid never came (despite the objective existence of the divine), so he decided to kill them all.

In the context of the MCU you could spin a variation of that where Gorr decided to kickstart his rampage after Gods failed to come to the aid of his people during the Snap. It would even add a interesting wrinkle to his relationship with Thor (as Thor was the only deity directly involved in fighting Thanos, although Bast technically had her champion involved as well).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#213: May 24th 2022 at 2:35:30 PM

IIRC the writer for Moon Knight considered a Gorr cameo that ultimately got nixed. There the Egyptian gods are mostly characterized as actively negligent of the mortal realm, with the exceptions of Khonshu and Ammit who take their concern for human justice to various degrees of overzealous and cruel, and of whatever Bast is up to these days. I can see how the Netjeru's negligence would directly tie into Gorr's motivations.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#214: May 24th 2022 at 2:40:19 PM

please tell me Bast is a girlcat/Liongirl because I have zero knowledge of Marvel's interpretation of the character and I'll be disappointed if they dont resemble a feline god

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#215: May 24th 2022 at 2:48:25 PM

This image came out a while ago.

We assume the woman under Jane is Bast.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/fs6t7jkx0aafxdq.jpeg

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#216: May 24th 2022 at 4:26:29 PM

One scene I distinctly remember from the first Thor movie (because I actually liked the first Thor movie) is Selvig digging through a children's picture book looking up old Norse myths. The heavy implication I got through that film was that in the MCU Norse mythology, like the actual mythology created by Nordic peoples, still exists but it just doesn't match 1:1 with the "real" Asgardian gods and history.

This is actually a fairly interesting distinction.

The Thor films establish that the MCU aren’t gods in the traditional sense, as much as soldiers who showed up on Earth one time and ended up being worshipped by the natives. The Norse pantheon is noted as totally made up by humans and thus largely, if not wildly inaccurate to Asgardian reality, they don’t preside over Earth, have no connection to the nature or the metaphysics of the world, etc. The only magic we see them use is very utilitarian and simple, and most of the mystical parts of the mythos are explained to be more practical: Hela, for instance, is not connected to the underworld, she’s a warlord whose skill is stabbing things, and Goddess of Death is a Red Baron moniker about how she stabs thing really, really well.

The first two films especially take pains to make it clear that the only real difference between the Asgardians and everyone around them is time - to the point that Loki is the only one of them that takes the whole “god” thing seriously, and even then because he has an inferiority complex.

This didn’t really matter for most of the MCU, though. For most of it, that’s just how the MCU define “gods:” regular, not-necessarily-mystical aliens from elsewhere in the galaxy looked at through the lens of less advanced humans. Though the differences started to show as early as Loki and Thor getting utterly clowned in magic by Strange (since the Asgardians don’t really use magic like that), overall this wasn’t a sticking point until recently, when Moon Knight introduced characters who were gods in the traditional sense.

Moon Knight canonizes the afterlife, canonizes gods that have mystical dominion over the laws of nature and the physics, things like possession and souls being weighed and all sorts of things the Thor series avoided like the plague, explaining the contrast by establishing that the actual gods have kept up The Masquerade all this time. The Ennead are the kind of “toys around with mortal fate and reality on their whim” gods that Gorr has a problem with.

Which still wouldn’t be an issue, except that Thor is going up against a guy out to kill gods, and - while it’s also unclear whether they’re going to portray Zeus and co as gods like the Asgardians or gods like the Ennead (though my guess is on the latter, since the Eternals literally just did the former for the Greek gods) - it’s on the writers to acknowledge that Thor isn’t so much a god as an alien aristocrat who used to be called a god but doesn’t really identify as one any more.

Which I think would be a very interesting plot point to pursue, if the writers were interested in doing it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 24th 2022 at 4:27:28 AM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#217: May 24th 2022 at 4:32:52 PM

Moon Knight canonizes the afterlife

I thought Black Panther canonized it first?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#218: May 24th 2022 at 4:34:48 PM

Black Panther uses a magic herb so I assume Moon Night's is a more of a direct confirmation

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#219: May 24th 2022 at 4:36:15 PM

Black Panther somewhat intentionally made it unclear as to whether that was literally the afterlife or some kind of meaningful Vision Quest. It can and arguably should be read as both.

Moon Knight gives a more direct answer to that, having Tawaret reference the Ancestral Plane directly.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 24th 2022 at 4:36:27 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#220: May 24th 2022 at 4:43:16 PM

I googled Tawaret and burst out laughing at her being literal hippo goddess

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Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#221: May 24th 2022 at 4:45:02 PM

She's fantastic and one of the highlights of the show.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#222: May 24th 2022 at 4:45:55 PM

There is still the possibility of them handwaving it that some of the afterlife stuff may have been metaphorical or in Marc/Steven's heads, although the Netjeru stuff is probably real on some level.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#223: May 24th 2022 at 4:55:36 PM

Amusingly Tawaret does mention the heart herb spirit plane when explaining to Marc that every cosmology has their own kind of afterlife that is generally accessible to those who still believe in it. So Marc has access to the Field of Reeds, the Egyptian heaven because of his association with Khonshu.

I'm reminded that Thor Ragnarok had Odin ask Thor "Are you not the God of Thunder?"

Which always was a bit of a thing cause Thor was always kind of an aberrant among the scaled down Asgardians.

He is ludicrously powerful and commands an actual element of nature or at least generates it naturally from his own body in massive amounts.

Edited by slimcoder on May 24th 2022 at 4:58:26 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MurlocAggroB from the second-most ridiculous province of Canada Since: May, 2015
#224: May 24th 2022 at 5:34:26 PM

To me, Ragnarok reestablishes that the Asgardians are actual gods. Or at the very least, they're inherently magical to the point where "alien" isn't the correct moniker. It's just that they're magical beings that happen to come from another planet. That's the only way Thor's arc makes sense in that movie.

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fanman "To watch it all burn." from Earth-Prime/Earth-1218 Since: Feb, 2022 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
"To watch it all burn."
#225: May 24th 2022 at 5:42:41 PM

How would Gorr plan on killing the Ennead? They don't have physical presences on the mortal plane, needing Avatars.

Edited by fanman on May 24th 2022 at 5:43:36 AM


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