I noticed that a disproportionate share of the LGBT Rights Worldwide thread
was dedicated to talking about British politics, and also that a disproportionate share of the British Politics thread
was taken up by discussion about LGBT rights. This sometimes results in the same posters having the same conversation across both threads simultaneously, which gets very confusing. I have therefore taken the bold step of creating this dedicated thread so that a more coherent conversation can be maintained.
For those wondering, this picks up from comment 45017
in the British Politics thread and from comment 3357
in the LGBT Rights one.
JK Rowling's imaginary trans Olympian
Khelif has never identified as a man, as transgender, or as intersex—which refers to people with both male and female sex characteristics.) She is also from Algeria, where it is illegal to transition.
“Could any picture sum up our new men’s rights movement better?” Rowling wrote on Twitter while sharing a picture of Carini and Khelif following their bout. “The smirk of a male who’s knows he’s protected by a misogynist sporting establishment enjoying the distress of a woman he’s just punched in the head, and whose life’s ambition he’s just shattered.”
You literally can't win.
Edit: Mod edited to remove end of final sentence.
Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 2nd 2024 at 3:38:13 PM
The government looks to be supportive of Rowling on this, saying that the match was “an incredibly uncomfortable watch” and suggesting that they are going to intervene to stop women like Khelif being allowed to compete in the future.[1]
None of that is surprising, Labour have established themselves as institutionally transphobic for a while now.
I expect this will escalate over the next few years, eventually most women’s events will have people throwing false accusations of being disguised men at their opponents to try and force them out.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranAll of this wraps around to the farcical conclusion: "we want our celebration of human outliers to not include anything that might touch very specifically on producing more of a single hormone in 50% of the population in a manner that would leave it circulating in the blood."
Edited by RainehDaze on Aug 2nd 2024 at 7:39:56 PM
There isn't going to be a single person on a podium that isn't at least far off the normal bell curve, and probably have a bunch of minor mutations. Or doping, because I guess (at least for men) the very important thing is that you naturally generate a bizarre response rather than it being induced externally. Oh, but mechanical improvements in tools are allowed, except when they're not.
The whole thing's a pile of nonsense.
This whole thing also just demonstrates that this rampant transphobia is also about policing and monstering any women who they consider not to fit their standards of conventional femininity. The likes of Rowling and Suzanne Moore have gone so far as to state that women with DSD are not real women and the misgendering and demonisation has continued further with Lin Yu Ting's bout today.
That we have journalists, ministers and a former prime minister all too willing to elevate and espouse these views is pretty damn dangerous.
Edited by TheDandyBear on Aug 2nd 2024 at 2:16:00 AM
Keep in mind that Khelif may not even have DSD, the accusation of failing a test was made by a Russian run boxing federation (with links to Russian state-run oil) that was so corrupt that the IOC has to step in and expel them from the Olympics. The claim I’ve seen online is that the test ‘failure’ came right after Khelif defeated a Russian boxer.
You’re right though, we know exactly where this goes and it doesn’t end with the victimisation and abuse of trans people. I’ve been having an on and off debate about Rowling with my mother for a while now and I ended up pointing out to her today that the path of where this goes is very clear, it’s going to end up impacting any women who doesn’t fit the feminism stereotype and eventually men who don’t fit the masculine stereotype. She hasn’t responded since I point that out and highlighted that my brother and I are part of the later group.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Well yes, this whole thing has required people to make a whole host of deeply personal assumptions about a person's private life, including whether or not a person is biologically "male" or whether they went through "male" puberty because that's clearly something any spectator is able to identify.
But yeah, this whole thing is very concerning and it shows no signs of abating even with a change of government. I'm a cisgendered, gay male who I guess passes as "masc" so in many ways that shields me from some of the more direct attacks, perhaps in a way that a straight man perceived as camp might not be.
I am a part of a close knit queer community where many people I know and care about are in the line fire. Not that it just impacts queer people, even those simply perceived as queer or who just don't fit societal norms are targets.
Edited by TheDandyBear on Aug 2nd 2024 at 2:42:02 AM
That's weak. Apparently critical thinking needs to be purged now.
"Yup. That tasted purple."![]()
The way you put that sounds rather forceful. It's more of a "let's just go with it rather than start a fight, pretty please with sugar on it?"
So not only is it transphobic, but it's an incredibly wimpy statement. And as
said, it's also a request from a rando.
fix'd, got them mixed up
Edited by Ramidel on Aug 4th 2024 at 1:35:11 AM
The vibe very much seems to be that the Cass Review has settled the issue for all time and is beyond reproach. Therefore, any concerns over its methodology and findings must be ideologically driven and therefore dismissed. Pretty much no debate is to be had at all.
Had the displeasure of reading a pretty insidious piece by Sonia Sodha (The Observers chief transphobe) where she stated that the BMA were guilty of breaking the "do no harm" principle due to raising objections to the Cass Review. Not surprising at this point but still maddening all the same.
What makes it even more ridiculous is that hormonal imbalances can affect anyone, and it'd be unreasonable to have to change your identity just because of a diagnosis. If JKR were to develop polycystic ovary syndrome and start producing more testosterone than most cis women do, would she have to start identifying as male by her own logic?
This kind of bizarre rhetoric would be laughable if it weren't getting taken 100% seriously and causing real harm.
Kindness is the most important thing in the world, and also the rarest.Well obviously it couldn't happen to her because she's a real woman.
But what would definitely happen is that JKR would get even more transphobic and louder about it and would hide that she has that syndrome.

Sounds like good news. The cynical part of my brain is thinking that it's just as well (for her) that Cass got her House of Lords seat before this was completed, if it finds some of the same flaws as the international responses.
Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 1st 2024 at 12:03:15 PM