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DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#151: Jun 8th 2022 at 6:08:07 PM

[up][up] Eh. I mean sure, we haven't gotten to see as much of Zoe's behavior here as was shown in the first comics issue since Zoe didn't have as much screentime, but we still did see her get huffy at her for accidentally bumping into her and deliberately aiming a ball at her in PE. Plus there's the pure-to-MCU canon fact established in the episode that she used to be Kamala's friend before ditching her due to getting internet famous. So I can't imagine Kamala has particularly positive feelings about her.

Edited by DeathsApprentice on Jun 8th 2022 at 9:09:02 AM

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#152: Jun 8th 2022 at 6:11:32 PM

[up][up]...What? She's been a bit haughty and as others have said she's hit Kamala with a volleyball, but none of her bullying so far is racist. Unless you're talking about the comics?

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#153: Jun 8th 2022 at 6:11:59 PM

I do take greater issue with her taking so long to stop the ball even before it actually hit someone.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#154: Jun 8th 2022 at 6:15:22 PM

[up][up][up] Oh I forgot about the dodgeball thing. Okay, I guess they're not selling this highschool-archnemesis thing solely on Zoe being annoyed at Kamala bumping into her.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#155: Jun 8th 2022 at 6:28:12 PM

Okay if Zoe is intended to be a huge prick already then this is a failure on the shows part.

The comic did this way more bluntly with Zoe actually having a conversation with Kamala and she blatantly acted like a passive-aggressive racist towards her.

Meanwhile all we got here is a mean shove and a dodgeball to face which as noted can be easy to miss that it was Zoe who threw it.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#156: Jun 8th 2022 at 6:54:11 PM

Zoe definitely has bully tendencies here, but she's more of a realistic bully and not an over-the-top Stephen King/Stranger Things bully.

Most bullies in real life aren't aggro monsters 24-7.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#157: Jun 8th 2022 at 7:11:21 PM

I mean if the idea is for Zoe to be at least relatable if not redeemable later then I can see why they don't get anywhere near any kind of racism button. That's not one you push lightly. New Mutants tried to play off casual racism as catty Mean Girls banter. It really doesn't work.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#158: Jun 8th 2022 at 7:24:40 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if Zoe becomes nicer by the end of the next episode. This show only has six episodes, and fasttracking stuff like that would make sense. They can't exactly do the "Zoe is shaken by the events of Secret Wars", plotline anyway.

Edited by Joshbones on Jun 8th 2022 at 7:24:48 AM

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#159: Jun 8th 2022 at 8:40:51 PM

IIRC, in the comics Zoe's Establishing Character Moment is being loudly faux-sympathetic in a public place that Kamala and her friends can't eat bacon because of their religion. I wouldn't say that's particularly "over the top".

[down] Right, also that. Point being, Zoe's worse in the comics.

Edited by Altris on Jun 8th 2022 at 8:44:28 AM

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#160: Jun 8th 2022 at 8:41:55 PM

It's a shame really because part of what made Zoe work was she was so passive aggressive about her racism and that was much more realistic to a lot of readers of the comic than overt mutant hatred.

It also would have made Thor's hammer hitting her much more satisfying.

[up]

Also, she invited Kamala and Nakia to a party knowing there's alcohol they can't drink.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 8th 2022 at 8:42:52 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161: Jun 8th 2022 at 8:48:07 PM

I thought Kamala's mom wanting her to go to the con with her dad present was a reasonable request.

Edited by Cortez on Jun 8th 2022 at 11:51:01 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#162: Jun 8th 2022 at 8:49:36 PM

It was.

I also fully believe a teenager would make that stupid of a mistake of overreacting to how "embarrassing" being at the con with her parents would be.

(Which would be: not at all)

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 8th 2022 at 8:51:19 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#163: Jun 8th 2022 at 8:52:48 PM

Meanwhile all we got here is a mean shove and a dodgeball to face which as noted can be easy to miss that it was Zoe who threw it.

Can confirm. I legitimately didn't even notice it was Zoe who threw the dodgeball until reading this conversation.

This episode seemed very intent on introducing the main cast and their relationships and a lot less interested in all the characters around the main cast, so presumably they're frontloading the main cast so that they can get more expansive later on. IIRC Nakia barely got any screentime either.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#164: Jun 8th 2022 at 9:42:14 PM

I get Kamala viewing dressing as “Little Hulk” as demeaning, but that her parents went to so much effort for “Dad Hulk” was worth appreciation. Maybe she could’ve done a compromise where she still goes as Captain Marvel or changes for the costume contest.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#165: Jun 8th 2022 at 9:43:12 PM

I think Kamala is in denial that it was a date with Bruno too. So heavily repressed she wouldn't consciously acknowledge it but definitely a date.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#166: Jun 8th 2022 at 9:44:42 PM

So I actually wasn't the biggest fan of this episode, but I think that's because I am definitely not the target demographic and I'm starting to realize "overly restrictive parental figures" aren't really a trope that I'm a fond of.

Granted, this show is a very very light example of that and unlike some other recent examples I still care about her and her parents reaching some sort of emotional synthesis and understanding, but there's a disconnect.

I'll agree that in a vacuum, "You can go to this convention but your dad has to go with you" is a perfectly fair compromise. But I also think given the rest of the circumstances around the situation, it was also a dick move. Not only did she attach "you have to wear this matching costume instead of the one you've been working on that I haven't even seen but assume will be inherently problematic," Kamala's mom initially shot the request down full-stop, even going so far as to explicitly say she doesn't trust her daughter, which.

Okay, side-tangent, it's obviously too early to tell if this is an actual flaw of the show or intentional, but I feel like it's a little muddled as to whether Kamala's actually too focused on superhero stuff, or if all the adults in her life are being overly judgmental, and right now to me at least it feels like the former? The counselor makes a deal of her "doodling in class" all day but doesn't actually say anything about her grades as far as I can remember, so like. Who actually cares?

And everybody seems to be treating this superhero obsession as a passing thing, but she could theoretically make a living out of content creation around the Avengers, or even just like, internet content creation in general, maybe even turn it into a movie production career if pointed in the right direction. Hell that would be true (if not very secure) in our world where the Avengers are just a hit movie phenomenon, in a world where superheroes actually exist I feel like it'd be even easier. This is genuinely the first time where I feel like the post-Blip world is not actually realistic, I have no doubt politicians and world leaders would want to get back to normal as quickly as possible, but idolizing the people who brought back half the goddamn universe does not seem like an unreasonable reaction.

But anyways back to the parenting thing. I don't think you get to say "I don't trust you" to your kid, seemingly without any real reason, then double-down on that and not expect an emotional reaction. Especially since Kamala's a junior in high school, so at best, you have a couple of years before you no longer legally have any control over her life, you really don't want to go building up potential resentment now.

Ultimately feel like this is an issue where my own experiences make it difficult to relate to Kamala's situation and sour my opinion of characters who may not deserve it? And it's definitely not enough to make me say that I'm not interested in the show, but it did make it hard for me to actually enjoy watching it. Very interested to see where it all goes, though.

Edited by Khfan429 on Jun 8th 2022 at 9:49:38 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#167: Jun 8th 2022 at 9:54:25 PM

I think we're going to get the revelation that her mother is down on her daydreaming and superhero stuff because HER mother was a superhero. Presumably, Pakistani Quasar or whatever the bangles are from. Which will add some interesting non-comic twists on it (though Kamala did have a couple of superhero ancestors).

I think Both Sides Have a Point is what they were going for because her mother has a right to be concerned about her daughter going off into the city, alone, at age 16 without supervision. It can be an incredibly hostile place in RL and the MCU is a place that would definitely ramp up your paranoia about something happening to your kid.

They want to be there for her and her ideas but the fact Kamala did run off and do it also didn't help matters.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 8th 2022 at 9:56:12 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#168: Jun 8th 2022 at 10:28:33 PM

In real life, if your kid goes to a party unsupervised, they might do drugs.

In the Marvel Universe, if your kid goes to a party unsupervised, they might do Mutant Growth Hormone mixed with a psycho-hypnotic provided by the Power Broker, which turns unsuspecting teenagers into subservient Hulks as part of the Master Planner's scheme to break the flow of time and turn the Multiverse inside-out.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HBarnill Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
#169: Jun 8th 2022 at 10:29:39 PM

the MCU is a place that would definitely ramp up your paranoia about something happening to your kid.

I can unequivocally think of a lot of universes that are much more dangerous for kids than the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Edited by HBarnill on Jun 8th 2022 at 10:35:18 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#170: Jun 8th 2022 at 10:32:14 PM

The place chosen for Avenger Con was literally blown up by a supervillain a decade prior.

[up] Nice all blue sentence. A lot of those are flat-out wrong, but it's not worth the effort to explain why.

Edited by ArthurEld on Jun 8th 2022 at 10:35:36 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#171: Jun 9th 2022 at 2:45:16 AM

It was.

I also fully believe a teenager would make that stupid of a mistake of overreacting to how "embarrassing" being at the con with her parents would be.

(Which would be: not at all)

Of course it would be embarrassing for Kamala. You can say that's irrational but it would still be true. It's not possible to go to something with your parents and not be embarrassed at that age.

You're trying to get into your passion with your parents there sort of half-understanding trying to take part but getting it all wrong? Pure cringiness.

That said it made perfect sense to me that it was a compromise the parents would offer and Kamala would hate. And to Kamala's credit she's aware and care how much she hurt her dad, which is very self aware for her age.

A better compromise that might have been accepted is to send Aamir. "You think we should let her go? Okay but you're responsible for her."

Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#172: Jun 9th 2022 at 10:13:04 AM

And everybody seems to be treating this superhero obsession as a passing thing, but she could theoretically make a living out of content creation around the Avengers, or even just like, internet content creation in general, maybe even turn it into a movie production career if pointed in the right direction. Hell that would be true (if not very secure) in our world where the Avengers are just a hit movie phenomenon, in a world where superheroes actually exist I feel like it'd be even easier. This is genuinely the first time where I feel like the post-Blip world is not actually realistic, I have no doubt politicians and world leaders would want to get back to normal as quickly as possible, but idolizing the people who brought back half the goddamn universe does not seem like an unreasonable reaction.

Parents in general are not supportive of their kids trying to make a lifestyle off internet content creation. This goes double for more traditional parents. I doubt this would change no matter what the Avengers had done.

MrTerrorist Since: Aug, 2009
#173: Jun 9th 2022 at 10:14:35 AM

That was a great 1st episode and I like how the show captures the South Asian Muslim community well.

Also, I'm surprised that Aamir is getting married in the show much earlier than in the comics since iirc he was getting married later when Kamala was already getting use to being a superhero and the comic's plot was his parents learning to accept their son's fiance, a black woman and recent Muslim convert.

HBarnill Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
#174: Jun 9th 2022 at 10:30:35 AM

Obviously too early but if the show continues in this direction, I have a suggestion for the "X Meets Y" entry:

It's Sanjay's Super Team meets Coco meets Turning Red meets The Mitchells vs. the Machines.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#175: Jun 9th 2022 at 10:33:58 AM

[up][up] I wonder if its the same woman cause considering how Kamala's mom and auntie gossiped about that neighborhood girl apparently dating a white boy, him marrying a black Muslim convert might cause a similar ruckus.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 9th 2022 at 10:34:12 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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