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Not Tropeworthy: Diary

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themayorofsimpleton he/him from a record store Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
he/him
Feb 25th 2022 at 11:39:34 AM

Diary is defined as when a diary exists in a work. That's it. Nothing in the description seems to refer to anything tropeworthy about diaries on their own. Discussion on the Wick Check thread raised concerns about the trope, and I decided to start a wick check which I, War Jay 77, and Walk In Shadows did. Full results are in the link, but here's the quick totals:

  • 26/50 wicks, or 52%, just mentioned the existence of a diary with no/not much other context,
  • 12/50 wicks, or 24%, referred to a narration or writing style in the form of a diary,
  • 9/50 wicks, or 18%, were used in other ways that I didn't really see any patterns in, and
  • 3/50 wicks, or 6%, were unclassifiable.

As mentioned in the quick totals, while many wicks were indeed just mentions of the existence of a diary, we noticed that several wicks (12/50 actually) referred to diary-style writing or narration. Some of the 9/50 other wicks mentioned diaries being used in various different ways, ranging from exposition to various different uses by characters.

My proposed solution would be to disambiguate Diary into various other diary-related tropes, and either yard or TLP the idea of "diary-style writing." What does everyone else think?

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MacronNotes she/her Relationship Status: -not set
she/her
Feb 25th 2022 at 11:42:10 AM

I am good with disambiguating diary and taking "diary writing style" to the TLP.

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Walkinshadows from Arson City Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Feb 25th 2022 at 11:42:17 AM

[tup] Disambig.

"No sauce is going to fix this atrocity."
WarJay77 THE definitive cousin from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
THE definitive cousin
Feb 25th 2022 at 11:43:03 AM

Disambig and split off the writing style trope [tup]

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Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> Relationship Status: In another castle
GastonRabbit What did I sleep through this time? (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I've got the brains, you've got the looks. Let's make lots of money.
What did I sleep through this time? (he/him)
Feb 25th 2022 at 12:07:02 PM

[up][up]

Currently sick (again...), so probably less active for a while.
Tonwen HoMM Fan from Axeoth Relationship Status: I <3 love!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:08:02 PM

[tup] Disambiguated and TLP “Diary-Style Narration”.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Eiryu Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:17:05 PM

Wait, do we not have Epistolary Narrative?

ETA: We do, although the site defines it much more rigidly than it's usually used. Epistolary Novel would encompass fiction written as a diary, too, and I think we should just update the description to accurate reflect that definition as is used...everywhere else, and fold those examples into it.

We do not need to Yard the idea, as we actually already have it.

Edited by Eiryu on Feb 25th 2022 at 3:19:20 AM

MacronNotes she/her Relationship Status: -not set
Noaqiyeum Smoke and mirrors (it/they) from the corner of your eye Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Smoke and mirrors (it/they)
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:21:09 PM

[up] I support this and would add Apocalyptic Log as another trope for the disambiguation page.

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MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:23:11 PM

Changing my vote to that.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:24:13 PM

Epistolary Novel's description skews heavily toward letters (since the examples are mostly letters), so it can be edited to say the diary is another common format.

[nja]

Edited by Tabs on Feb 25th 2022 at 1:25:01 AM

Eiryu Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:25:33 PM

Yeah, our description will need to be cleaned up a tad, but even The Other Wiki specifically calls out diaries as a common form. We’ll just be adjusting to how the term is used.

Edited by Eiryu on Feb 25th 2022 at 3:26:21 AM

themayorofsimpleton he/him from a record store Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
he/him
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:25:41 PM

Changing my vote from disambig and TLP/yard to disambig and [up]'s solution.

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WarJay77 THE definitive cousin from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
THE definitive cousin
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:34:47 PM

Yeah, I overlooked Epistolary Novel because it was so focused on letters that I didn't even consider expanding it. If we can do that, then let's do.

Current Project: Uncanny Valley
Nightshade92 from The Big Rotten Apple Relationship Status: Remembering what Mama said
Feb 25th 2022 at 1:44:28 PM

I agree that Epistolary Novel should be expanded beyond letters, including applicable Diary examples.

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GastonRabbit What did I sleep through this time? (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I've got the brains, you've got the looks. Let's make lots of money.
What did I sleep through this time? (he/him)
Feb 25th 2022 at 2:02:26 PM

I'm retracting my TLP/Yard vote since Yes, We DO Have This One. I'm still in favor of disambiguating.

We have Scrapbook Story (which is about stories that use in-universe documents as a framing device for text) in addition to Epistolary Novel, and the former lists at least one example (Dracula) that contains text written in the form of diary entries.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 25th 2022 at 4:06:07 AM

Currently sick (again...), so probably less active for a while.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> Relationship Status: In another castle
GastonRabbit What did I sleep through this time? (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I've got the brains, you've got the looks. Let's make lots of money.
What did I sleep through this time? (he/him)
Feb 25th 2022 at 4:08:22 PM

Maybe we could word the list on the disambiguation page like this:

  • Apocalyptic Log, a way of providing backstory for a doomed person in the form of records written by them, such as diary entries.
  • Epistolary Novel, a type of story written as a series of letters sent by multiple characters to each other.
  • Scrapbook Story, a story whose framing device takes the form of in-universe documents written by characters in the story, such as diary entries.

I'm not entirely sure if Epistolary Novel needs to be there since it involves letters, as opposed to how Apocalyptic Log and Scrapbook Story can use other types of writing.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 25th 2022 at 6:10:07 AM

Currently sick (again...), so probably less active for a while.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
Feb 25th 2022 at 4:13:01 PM

How many are there "about literally diaries" examples that would fit into Secret Diary?

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Eiryu Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Feb 25th 2022 at 4:14:15 PM

Again, the description we have on this site of Epistolary Novel is not really accurate, and the proper definition seen...everywhere else...does include diary-format stories. We need to clean up our description a bit, but that is the trope we're looking for here.

themayorofsimpleton he/him from a record store Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
he/him
Feb 25th 2022 at 4:17:31 PM

[up][up] I definitely think that Secret Diary should be on the disambig at least. I believe one of the wicks I checked was actually a Secret Diary example listed under Diary.

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GastonRabbit What did I sleep through this time? (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I've got the brains, you've got the looks. Let's make lots of money.
What did I sleep through this time? (he/him)
Feb 25th 2022 at 5:06:05 PM

I agree that Secret Diary should be on there. I would have put it in my previous post if I had known about that page.

And I'm fine with rewriting Epistolary Novel's description if it's inaccurate. A cursory glance of the Literature/ namespace shows that not every example involves letters; between the first two wicks in that namespace, one involves a blog, and another involves a diary. The description rewrite can be sandboxed if necessary.

Edit: I tagged Epistolary Novel just in case.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 25th 2022 at 7:09:53 AM

Currently sick (again...), so probably less active for a while.
NotGonnaDoALot4 Man in the Yellow Hat from God knows. Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Man in the Yellow Hat
Feb 26th 2022 at 11:32:53 AM

Disambig, hands down. Diaries exist, so we might as well talk about unusual diaries.

I honestly don't know what to do anymore.

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