This Seasonal Rot entry needs to be rewritten. It’s also pretty nattery.
- Seasonal Rot: After the second movie and Kimi became a regular. Her presence did not ruin the show, however, it was the fact the Baby Talk was dumbed down. They dumbed down baby talk.
- However, after Kimi's introduction they did begin basically recycling plots to shoehorn her in. For example, despite Rugrats having several holiday specials in previous years (including in the first season which dealt with the babies' first Halloween), after Kimi becomes part of the babies, the Halloween special is treated like the first with none of the babies nor Angelica remembering what had happened a 'year' ago.
- Not to mention randomly retconning things: such as Tommy, Chuckie's, Phil, and Lil's first meeting, Angelica's first walk, etc. It was almost like the old writers had never seen the earlier series.
- There are some fans who believe the show started to go bad after the 1997 revival, some after the first movie, some after the second movie, some after All Grown Up!, and the rest who either believe the show was sweet mana from above or jumped the shark from the beginning.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 29th 2022 at 11:13:24 AM
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The final bullet point doesn't elaborate on why those eras are considered rots, so it can go completely.
- Seasonal Rot: After the second movie, when Kimi became a regular, and they started recycling plots to shoehorn her in. They also retconned events such as the babies' first Halloween, their first meeting, Angelica's first walk, etc.
Edited by magnumtropus on Jan 29th 2022 at 7:34:33 PM
I haven't seen the second series of gen:LOCK yet (being in the UK, I don't have access to HBO Max). However, according to Wikipedia
, the last episode in series 2 ended on the 23rd December 2021, so this entry doesn't meet the six months criteria; it's also written as an Audience-Alienating Era entry, not a Seasonal Rot one, and has a lot of complaining:
- When gen:LOCK left Rooster Teeth and went to Hbo Max, the results became widely disliked by fans, as the Darker and Edgier route was so bleak and miserable it became joyless between the characters being jerks, the increased visceral violence, and important characters getting unceremoniously killed. The scripts also downplayed the slick mecha action and character moments which won people in season 1 in favor of half-baked political drama, and the addition of sexually explicit content shocked viewers in the wrong way.
This does raise a question, however. The entry indicates the GL fanbase (originally a Rooster Teeth fanbase) may not like Series 2 (which was moved from RT to other animation studios and writing teams for the second series, and now airs on HBO Max before it's allowed to air on the RT website). However, from what I can see, professional criticis (some are mentioned on Wikipedia) are praising the second season. What happens in cases where fandom perceptions and perceptions from outside the fandom don't match?
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 30th 2022 at 4:05:40 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
This one has been bugging me for a while. It's too long, and Jackbox is a video game franchise, not a TV show.
- Seasonal Rot: The Jackbox Party Pack 6 is often seen as a step-down from Party Pack 4 and 5. Aside from Trivia Murder Party 2, none of the other games are seen as high-quality material, with Role Models being seen as forgettable and reliant on knowing the other players, Joke Boat relying too much on inside humor, Dictionarium being too short for its own good, and Push the Button having too precise of a set-up. Technical issues also include a lack of the fan-favorite drawing games and the bathtub aesthetic being incredibly bland. Most of these problems would be mitigated in The Jackbox Party Pack 7, and further improved upon in Party Pack 8.
I was thinking of going through individual pages to see what fits where, but yes - I think Jackpot Party Pack might be a case of Sequelitis.
On that note, we should have decided which mediums fall under which trope.
The Obvious ones - Film goes under Sequelitis, while TV Shows (Live action and Animated) go under Seasonal Rot
We have other mediums like Comics, Anime, Manga, Fan Works, Music, Web Original, etc. Where would each go?
Edited by magnumtropus on Jan 30th 2022 at 7:58:07 PM
YMMV.Hearthstone Heroes Of Warcraft had a massive Dork Age entry detailing 2015 and 2016, which - as bad as those sets were in terms of balance - don't qualify because that was also the height of Hearthstone's popularity. It's also sounds like stealth complaining, since it was written reactionarily during those metas. I'm cutting it for that reason.
However, I am wondering if this entry is fine as a replacement:
- Audience-Alienating Era: If you ask any long-standing Hearthstone player what the worst year of the game was, most would probably say 2018, the Year of the Raven. That year was dominated by overpowered holdovers from the Year of the Mammoth, underwhelming sets that failed to impact the game, and metas defined by a handful of restrictive, stale build-arounds. Rastakhan's Rumble in particular is considered an absolute low in terms of game design, even surpassing the much-maligned TGT in how weak it was. The Boomsday Project announcement was the first Hearthstone trailer not to reach a million views, showing an obvious drop in the game's visibility that it hasn't entirely recovered from.
I know it's technically a year early, but people's opinions are not likely to change. Due to set rotation, none of those cards are in Standard anymore and haven't been for years now, so it's not like those sets will see a renaissance. Is that fine?
Infinite Ideas, Zero Good.
There's this overly-long sub-bullet in Seasonal Rot, under Naruto's section:
- In particular, the massive block of over 80 filler episodes that make up the space between Naruto and Naruto: Shippuden is not well regarded. Besides the immense length of time, the episodes themselves simply tend to be lower quality or have Idiot Plots. There are some good arcs among all the drivel, but the fact remains that it's a massive block of wasted space which doesn't contribute to anything. The lack of character consistency, especially with Sakura, doesn't help. Likely as a way to avoid this, Shippuden spreads Filler out more across the storyline, rather than shoving it together the way the original series did; however, they went back to the original pre-Shippuden formula after the Pain arc. In fact, they emphasized filler to the point that a certain 6-episode arc has animation quality usually reserved for the movies, while the canon arc directly following it uses the standard show animation. Meanwhile, the manga was 80 chapters and several major events ahead. To make matters worse, the usage of filler really kicked off on the climax, interrupting key moments such as Obito's reveal, Obito's defeat, Naruto's Disney Death, and the Infinite Tsukoyumi with either entire filler arcs about Obito's past or padded-out episodes that are only canon for the first/last minute or two (the rest consisting of Obito's past). To add insult to injury, instead of doing an entire filler block that fans can simply use to take a break from the series, Studio Pierrot interluded between an increasing Filler:Canon ratio to the point where entire 20-episode arcs are separated by one or two canon episodes, making it a far more unpleasant experience for manga fans than the pre-Shippuden filler block ever was.
It starts as what looks like a valid example — the Large Filler Block was very infamous in the fandom — but then it devolves in to talking about how the series as a whole uses filler and then it kind of goes all over the place, instead of sticking to specific seasons like how the page is supposed to be. From my memory I think it's because this were originally multiple bullet points that were merged together, but I think there's a better way to clean it up. I'll try this:
- The massive block of over 80 filler episodes that make up the space between Naruto and Naruto: Shippuden is not well regarded. Besides the immense length of time, the episodes themselves simply tend to be lower quality or have Idiot Plots. The lack of character consistency, especially with Sakura, doesn't help. Some of the arcs were regarded as good among them, but they were seen as far and few in-between, and did not change that the overall canon story came to a halt for so long. Shippuden tried to correct this by spacing out its filler more instead of having it all together, with mixed results.
Does that look good? Is a mention of how Shippuden would handle filler even necessary? (I feel like it is, it shows that the Rot was so strong the writers listened to the feedback and tried correcting it.)
Edited by greatpikminfan on Feb 5th 2022 at 10:52:57 AM
I write stupid crap about naked people.
As someone who doesn't follow Naruto, this looks fine, though you might need to be more specific when you say "massive block of over 80 filler episodes" between "Naruto" and "Shippuden". Something like the years or seasons (if such a thing exists in anime)
Infinite Ideas, Zero Good.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
According to Wikipedia, Naruto's anime was in five seasons, and it looks like (I've seen the original series up until Toonami ended and skimmed the summaries on the page for Season 3 to see which episodes still cover the Retrieval Arc and which ones were the start of the first filler arc)... oh wow, the "Large Filler Block" starts from about the last quarter of Season 3 and it goes all the way to the final episode of Season 5. So... definitely Seasons 4 and 5, and possibly "Season 3 after the Sasuke Retrieval Arc" if that counts. (The Sasuke Retrieval Arc was the last canon arc in Part 1, if memory serves.)
Edit, how about:
- Seasons 4, 5, and the last legs of 3 after the Sasuke Retrieval Arc are not well regarded. This is because they form a massive block of over 80 filler episodes that make up the space between Naruto and Naruto: Shippuden. Besides the immense length of time, the episodes themselves simply tend to be lower quality or have Idiot Plots. The lack of character consistency, especially with Sakura, doesn't help. Some of the arcs were regarded as good among them, but they were seen as far and few in-between, and did not change that the overall canon story came to a halt for so long. Shippuden tried to correct this by spacing out its filler more instead of having it all together, with mixed results.
Edited by greatpikminfan on Feb 6th 2022 at 7:16:37 AM
I write stupid crap about naked people.
I know I keep bringing this up, but the Bomberman entry/folder for Audience-Alienating Era is still extremely complainy, and could probably be cut down to be more concise while still getting the point across.
Note that some of these entries have been Vindicated by History. This does not, however, change the fact that the games were heavily contested at the time of their release.
- It all started in 2000 with the Bomberman Land series, as well as the introduction of the hated developer Racjin. Bomberman Land was a Mini Game Game with very little Bomberman mechanics that was seen as So Okay, It's Average in its native Japan, but was considered generic and terrible in the West (though the authentic recreations of theme parks and the Survival Bomberman mode were well received on both sides of the pacific). It probably didn't help that the game wasn't released outside Japan... and did well enough to get sequels that got even worse reception.
- The Charaboms. While they were introduced in Bomberman 64: The Second Attack! and Bomberman Maxnote , nobody really minded until Hudson Soft started to force them into the single-player campaigns in an attempt to copy the success of Pokémon. This didn't go over very well with fans, because A) they'd already tried making a Pokemon clone with Robopon, B) the battle system wasn't anywhere near as good as Pokémon's, and C) the Level Grinding clashed heavily with the Bomberman gameplay style. The fan backlash resulted in the Charaboms being Put on a Bus after 2002, though they've since been Vindicated by History.
- Then came Bomberman Tournament, an early Game Boy Advance game and the sequel to Bomberman Quest. While its Battle Game was praised, the story mode was heavily panned for essentially being a watered down version of Quest with none of its personality or good writing. The removal of Quest's Boss Game gameplay and the addition of the controversial Charabom mechanic (which now requires you to do extensive Level Grinding to even stand a chance against the CPU) didn't help matters. Tournament would eventually be Vindicated by History, however.
- Bomberman Online was a late release for the Sega Dreamcast, coming out exclusively in the U.S. in October 2001. It gutted the traditional single-player gameplay for a Battle Game-centric campaign (much like Wario Blast/Bomberman GB before it) which was criticized for its Fake Difficulty (especially the bosses). While the online mode was well-received, it didn't last too long due to its very late release date.
- Bomberman Kart was a Land spin-off and the first Bomberman game on the PlayStation 2. Unfortunately, it was also a generic kart racer, which didn't sit well with fans or critics, nor did it help the perception of Land in the West. To top things off, it was only released in Japan and Europe.
- In 2002, Bomberman Generation and Max 2 hit store shelves...only to be hit with the Tough Act to Follow trope hard. The games were meant to be sequels to Bomberman 64 and Max respectively, but didn't really get fans' attention. Notably, Generation caught a lot of heat for not acknowledging the lore or characters from the previous game. The Charaboms really didn't help, either—in the former game, on top of having Tournament's Level Grinding, Generation locks several abilities behind the Charaboms, including several mechanics introduced in 64 such as the ability to control the strength of your Bomb Throw and the fan-favorite Bomb Jump—as it was another sign of Generation moving away from 64's Puzzle Platformer roots. And in the latter game, some of the 'Boms are absolute Game Breakers. While Generation has been heavily Vindicated by History, Max 2 is still a Contested Sequel.
- At the end of that year, the critically contested Bomberman Jetters anime and marketing campaign, which lasted about a year, was launched. Fans were split down the middle—some liked Jetters and wanted to see it continue, while others hated it and thought the series had officially jumped the shark. If there was one thing that fans unanimously agreed on, however, it's that no one expected the inevitable Recursive Adaptation tie-in video game to be such a catastrophic example of The Problem with Licensed Games. It had it all: looong loading times, Charabomsnote , dreadfully long and padded levels, and the obligatory Fake Difficulty. Worse yet, despite being a sequel to Generation, it was released in Japan six months after Gen so it could tie into the anime. Japanese fans weren't happy, and when the game finally made it stateside in 2004, American critics butchered it and fans were through the roof in anger. It singlehandedly killed the "64-esque" gameplay style, marked the end of the road for the Charaboms (so much so that future games don't even acknowledge them) and tainted the reputation of Jetters in the west for years.
- There was also a GBA prequel/tie-in to the anime. Unlike the console game, it was very well received...which naturally meant that it never left Japan.
- Bomberman Hardballnote was yet another Land spin-off, this time a generic compilation of sports games, once again only released in Japan and Europe. At this point, some people wondered if Racjin (the developers of Land) were actively trying to sabotage the franchise.
- Bomberman on the Nintendo DS was released in 2005 and was the start of the series' decline heading into overdrive, as this was where the true Capcom Sequel Stagnation began. Racjin finally got to make a main series title! And it was essentially a clone of the Super Bomberman games, but with Land's art style... with all of the innovation of those titles surgically removed (save for the surprisingly fun double screen battle mode). This worsened Racjin's reputation among western fans, to the point that some feared that the franchise wouldn't last much longer.
- Then there's the big one: Bomberman Act:Zero. Seeing how poorly Bomberman had done in the sixth generation, Hudson attempted to restore goodwill with fans and critics by rebooting the series. Unfortunately, some executive at Konami (the game's publisher. Keep them in mind) who likely didn't know much about the series forced the developers to make it much Darker and Edgier in a attempt to follow the baffling trend of E rated franchises trying to get the Grand Theft Auto crowd in the wake of the infamous Wind Waker backlash. When it was released, fans and critics were downright horrified at how bad the game was. Act:Zero used the same Battle Game-centric gameplay style as Online, only this time Bomberman had to survive 99 rounds with no lives or saves! Died on Round 96? Back to Round 1 for you! It also featured such gems as a "First-Person Bomber" mode that was actually third-person, a needlessly dark story about how Bombers were actually Super Soldiers made for some war with a lame A Winner Is You ending to boot, a horrible redesign that became a textbook example of bad redesigns, no local play option for the battle mode, and Jiggle Physics for the female Bombers in the normally chaste Bomberman series. Needless to say, Act:Zero quickly became a laughingstock in the industry. It was so bad that Hudson had to go into full damage control mode by apologizing for the game and abandoning the reboot... but not before insulting fans by making a Totally Radical website that invoked the Animation Age Ghetto on the older Bomberman games—even going as far as telling fans who didn't like the game to play with the PSP game (seemingly mocking the iconic Bomberman character design in the process) or Hello Kitty toys. Fans took the hint and retaliated by leaving the series en masse, resulting in Act:Zero as well as every Bomberman game released afterward bombing in sales. Hudson later teamed up with Backbone Entertainment to create Bomberman Live/Ultra, which was intended to be a saving throw, but it was too late for the series.
- Around the time of Act:Zero's release, two games were made for the Play Station Portable. The first of these was Bakufuu Sentai Bomberman, a crossover with Super Sentai. Western fans were baffled by the concept and fans on both sides of the Pacific noted the lack of creativity in the gameplay. It also never left Japan.
- The second of the two titles was Bomberman. It suffered from the exact same problem as Bakufuu and DS—namely the lack of innovation. In fact, it was somehow an even worse rehash than DS. Fans (what little there were after the whole Act:Zero fiasco) felt that the series was starting to stagnate.
- Then there were four Land games—one for the PSP, another for the Wii and two for the DS. All of them were localized (unlike the previous titles) and all of them were very poorly received (though the DS entries were Vindicated by History due to their mini-games being more "Bomberman-esque" than past installments). The PSP Land is widely considered to be one of the worst Bomberman games by fans as it not only has the most banal plot and dialogue in the series history (including the park director rewarding you for 100% Completion by flat out telling you he doesn't plan on giving you anything for it despite the effort it took to get 100% as well as heavy Flanderization for the main characters), it also recycles nearly all of its mini-gamesnote , costumes, and music from Land 3. Fans were convinced that Racjin would kill the franchise though Hudson at least ended the Land series after these titles.
- Bomberman Live (Ultra on the Play Station 3) was supposed to be an apology for Act:Zero, being developed with American fans in mind. While critics loved it, fans were split—some loved it for its Battle Mode-centric gameplay while others hated it for that exact reason, feeling that it was falling into the same trap as Online and Act:Zero before it. Both sides agreed that the game wasn't what the series needed to get back on track. It later got a sequel in 2010...that ended up being the last Bomberman game for a few years.
- In 2007, Hudson teamed up with Shockwave game developer 55shock to develop yet another online Bomberman game. The end result was Bomberman Online Japan which officially launched on September 10, 2008 (after two weeks of private beta testing). Despite being positively received and having a somewhat small but loyal playerbase, the game went on hiatus on January 31, 2009... which became permament on June 3, 2009. This was primarily due to the Japanese Shockwave webpage closing in January 2009, taking down 55shock with it. Making matters worse is the fact that Hudson had big plans for the game, including a western release and even a 2010 Bomberman World Cup! Unfortunately, the game's closure after four months squandered those plans.
- After Hudson went into the depths of bankruptcy and sold their IPs to Konami, the franchise laid dormant for a few years...until the release of Super Bomberman R in 2017. While the game was initially criticized by fans at launch for being derivative of Hudson's Super Bomberman games and for being an Obvious Beta upon release, it has since been praised for being a return to form for the series.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 6th 2022 at 11:37:50 AM
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Obviously, the complaining and nattering needs to be removed. However, I think each game can remain it's own sub-bullet for now if there is enough to talk about.
It's either real or it's a dream
- Seasonal Rot: His infamous Post-Season 2 reviews of MLP are regarded as a point where the overall quality of his content began to fall outside of a few stand out videos.
How should this trope apply to web video review series? It also feels like a thinly-veiled way to bash his MLP opinions, since there's no real specifics given as to how his quality declined.
Angry babby
I think it should focus more on things like a lack of production value and research, not just bad opinions. Of course, a Mid-Review Sketch Show would be a different story.
I found this in YMMV.Mario And Sonic At The Olympic Games
- Sequelitis:
- The direct sequel to the Beard-Growing Vancouver and London games, Sochi 2014 had big shoes to fill and had the unfortunate timing of being the first M&S game to be released on the then-new Wii U, which made development and marketing awkward. Sochi had no handheld edition on the 3DS; the number of Dream Events was reduced to just eight; and the single-player features were bare-bones compared to the two prequels.
- Rio 2016, despite finally expanding the character roster and having a 3DS version again, had a very lukewarm reception due to the introduction of a few Scrappy Mechanics, namely the elimination of Dream Events and the odd decision to lock certain characters to specific events.
- Tokyo 2020 was also lackluster to some, compared to even Sochi 2014 and Rio 2016, for how barebones the single player experience is (the Quick Match and Story mode is pretty all there is to it), the removal of Miis, custom music remixes, Tournament mode, and other features players loved in the previous games, the amount of Dream Events only being three, and lack of bonus content after completing Story Mode. It did not help that players had waited a long time over the skipped Pyeongchang 2018 Olympics and expected Sega to craft up something very spectacular for an Olympics happening in their hometown.
Wasn't Tokyo 2020 generally thought to be better than the previous 2 entries?
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!
Yeah, how do we do YMMV tropes for review shows? Obviously some do sketches and storylines, but what about shows where someone is just stating their opinion? I guess in those cases we'd look at how much research they put into their show (i.e. do they make basic mistakes about the work they're reviewing).
Angry babby
At that point, it's probably barely even tropable.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Yeah, a show that's purely opinion based with no creative content to discuss or react to isn't a tropeworthy work.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
It's either real or it's a dream
Found these examples on YMMV.Monicas Gang. How should a Comic Book be handled under the new definition for Seasonal Rot? Given that it's still ongoing, it might already be invalid.
- Seasonal Rot:
- It's generally agreed that the comics suffered a steep drop in quality during The New '10s, due to what's perceived as less inspired plotlines, lower-quality writing devoid of witty dialogue, and the protagonists losing their most noteworthy traits and becoming Flat Characters; which overall made the work much less appealing to older readers. (who sum up by saying the Multiple Demographic Appeal was dropped to make a comic aimed solely at young children) Said older readers also think the creative team is doing a reverse Art Evolution, as the digital art is mostly low-effort and some stories seem to give a Wild Take to the characters for no reason every other panel.
- The general consensus is that the second series of Monica's Teen Gang suffers badly from this, from Off-Model artwork to utterly ridiculous plotlines and moments that completely invalidate all Character Development characters went through in the first series or outright contradicting established character traits. The worst offender is "The Other Side of the Coin", for its utterly irresponsible portrayal of depression, the hamfisted message of always looking at the other perspective of things, the terrible artwork and the horrid aesop at the end of the story. It is also agreed that it wouldn't be so bad if it were not for the high price tag for what is deemed as a low-quality product.
- Sequelitis: The first Astronaut graphic novel was well-received for delving into the protagonist's psyche, exploring his loneliness and expanding on his backstory. However, the sequels were met with mixed reviews, as they were seen as fairly generic sci-fi stories with predictable endings.
- Seasonal Rot: Some fans felt the series got progressively worse with each Stage. Fourth Stage is the exception to some, viewed either as almost or just as good as First Stage. Meanwhile, Third Stage is often seen as Filler, Fifth Stage and Final Stage are poor attempts at Pandering to the Base and Second Stage is hardly ever discussed.
Not sure how to proceed with this given the Weasel Words and the lack of context.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 12th 2022 at 3:42:58 PM
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How I see it, anime is usually released in a season format, so it should go under Seasonal Rot unless it's a sequel series.
Comics and manga are usually released in issues in an ongoing series, so that should go under Seasonal Rot as well. When a series ends and it's continued in a new series, it would go under Sequelitis.
Should I cut the "Film" subfolders for Seasonal Rot? The very nature of the medium is non-conducive for "Seasons" and all the examples would fit better under Sequelitis anyways
Yes. Cut away.
Found this in the Audience-Alienating Era page for TV networks.
How much of this is just one writer's opinion, and how much of it is a verifiable fact? I have a distinct feeling that a lot of what he's talking about was only "alienating" to the network's (admittedly very large) Periphery Demographic, whereas I think to qualify as an Audience-Alienating Era, a work or creator needs to alienate its target audience.
Edited by ElSquibbonator on Mar 3rd 2022 at 1:38:14 PM
HoMM Fan
Wall of Text crits Tonwen for 8900
They die
I'd just cleanse the whole thing and plan a complete rewrite, that's a freaking wall.
"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
This TRS thread
recently came to a decision that affected three tropes:
We need to look through the examples under each trope and see where they would be best suited under.
Edited by magnumtropus on Apr 25th 2022 at 12:01:50 PM