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Tropes Needing TRS cleanup and discussion thread

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There's been a lot of talk lately about how Tropes Needing TRS is getting too long and backed-up, as well as about how many of the tropes added might not even need TRS action at all. It was decided we should make a short-term project thread to clean out the page before we take any more drastic actions.

Some potential guidelines for what might need to be removed:

  • Tropes added without enough discussion or a prior wick check (does not apply to issues such as Not Thriving)
  • Entries that either misunderstand the trope or require more consensus about the trope's usage first
  • Things that already have open or finished TRS threads

Note: This thread is specifically about maintaining the TNTRS page itself and the entries on it, not for discussing potential TRS threads. Please use Trope Talk or the TRS Meta Thread for that.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 7th 2024 at 1:47:52 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#376: Jun 12th 2022 at 2:19:04 PM

At "my" redlinks? Eh? All I did was reorganize what was already on the page and added like three wick check links.

Edit: Oh, I see what you mean.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 12th 2022 at 5:19:33 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#377: Jun 13th 2022 at 7:56:31 PM

So on the TRS thread for Old Shame, someone noted that Creator Backlash is often misused as creators being unhappy with specific aspects or creative choices made on a work they did, rather than hating the project as a whole. I've noticed this (and admittedly may have done it myself) as well. Could this go on Tropes Needing TRS?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#378: Jun 14th 2022 at 12:17:14 AM

Definitely. I see them used interchangeably.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#379: Jun 14th 2022 at 12:25:22 AM

Like I said on the TRS thread, I'm not sure if it's necessary to make an entire different thread for it especially if we end up merging the two tropes anyway. And if we make a wick check for it, it can just become part of the Old Shame thread and doesn't need to be added to TNTRS in the first place (as this should really be used for things people aren't planning to address immediately, otherwise it's sort of redundant to the queue IMO).

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#380: Jun 14th 2022 at 4:31:48 AM

If we are going with the merge, we don't need a different thread.

Macron's notes
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#381: Jun 20th 2022 at 12:14:18 PM

Am I good to add the new folders to the sandbox and move on?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#383: Jun 20th 2022 at 12:20:50 PM

Swapped [tup]

I'll look at a few more folders now. As before, I'll only be mentioning the entries I have something to say about.

    Complaining or gushing 
  • Alternate History Wank: Complainy Wall of Text description about an Alternate History author who privileges a certain state by making them more powerful in that timeline. However, the examples are just "X is more powerful than Y in work Z." Feels like a different issue at hand, then. A ranty description doesn't always translate to ranty examples.
  • Classic Video Game "Screw You"s: The whole page is written as if an exercise in how sarcastic one can be. What on Earth is this page even supposed to be?
  • Cliché Storm: Suspected of being a complaining magnet, as well as being redundant with Troperiffic. I actually already did a wick check and there wasn't a ton of complaining to be found.
  • The Problem with Licensed Games: Made specifically to complain about poor quality video games based on licenced properties. Should be moved to Darth Wiki since it's incredibly out of place on Main. Its inverse, No Problem with Licensed Games, has been on Sugar Wiki for quite some time.
  • Random Smoking Scene: Amounts to complaining (mostly by a single editor) about smoking scenes that do not affect the plot, but there are many other reasons for having smoking in a film. This may be true, but we do need to know how the examples fare.
  • Silence Is Golden: Brought up in the TRS thread for Lull Destruction (now called Filling the Silence), and was seen as potentially gushy. Needs a wick check, since I don't know if I've seen gushing personally.
  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Attracts a lot of complaining and dubious examples, which includes examples of characters who weren't meant to be sympathetic (i.e. they were called out by the other characters, the other characters don't forgive their actions, etc.), characters with understandable motives or goals but were intentionally written to be morally questionable, and characters that one portion of the fandom found unsympathetic while others sympathized with them, meaning the reaction wasn't universal (better suited for Base-Breaking Character or Broken Base). It also attracts examples of straight-up character bashing that don't explain how the character was supposed to be seen as intentionally sympathetic. Criteria has been discussed in its cleanup thread. This one might need to go in the "multiple issues" folder TBH.

    Multiple tropes 
  • Face–Heel Turn and Fallen Hero: Brought up in this declined thread, The latter is either the same as or a Same But More Specific version of the former, as both tropes concern heroes becoming villains. Should be in the duplicate folder if one trope in particular is the problem
  • Official Couple and Official Couple Ordeal Syndrome: The former lacks much in the way of meaning or plot relevancy ("couples exist" is Chairs, and "official" is a meaningless distinction), and seems to only exist for fanatical shippers, while the latter doesn't amount to much more than "bad things happen to couples, except these couples are Official Couples" and was made without YKTTW. Both are also indexed under Shipping Tropes, at least as of August 13, 2020. These tropes seem to have distinct issues and should be tackled separately.
  • Our Presidents Are Different: A trope clump of different "President+X" concepts which could be tropable in their own right, and some of which are already their own tropes. This should be moved to the new "too many concepts" folder.
  • Our Time Machine Is Different and Time Machine: Two versions of "plot-relevant time travel device." The better description is on TM, along with over 800 wicks. OTMID only has about 80 wicks. The respective pages don't even seem to be aware that the other page exists. Then OTMID is the one with the problem and this should be moved to the duplicate folder.
  • Schizo Tech and Schizophrenic Difficulty: Using schizophrenia as a metaphor for inconsistency is considered offensive on top of being nonindicative, as discussed in the tropes with outdated/offensive names thread. Renaming the former to something like OOPArt Tech, Anachronistic Tech, or even the Portmanteau Anachronistech and the latter to something like Inconsistent Difficulty would fix this. This was discussed before, I do think the "Schizo" in the first one is referring to something else, but I don't remember the details.
  • Talking to Themself and Talking To Himself: One appears to be a gendered redirect to the other, but they are actually two different concepts. Would need a wick check to see if there's actually any confusion.
  • Weapon Of Choice and subtropes: This trope is about weapons implying something about a character, which is a sound concept. It has a myriad of subtropes dealing with specific weapons, but a lot of the subtropes' pages boil down to "character uses this weapon", with the actual personality implications being left on Weapon Of Choice. This leads to Weapon Of Choice being bloated and many weapon tropes being PSOC. WOC is already in TRS, but I get that the subtropes are also relevant...

I think the "Depreciated practices" and "Crash Rescue Tallies" folders might be OK but I'll go through them if anyone wants to. Other than that it's just the "Multiple Issues" folder and then we're finally able to swap the sandbox.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 20th 2022 at 3:40:38 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#384: Jun 20th 2022 at 12:53:06 PM

[up] I notice The Problem with Licensed Games didn't have any comments attached. Is there a concern you had with the entry?

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#385: Jun 20th 2022 at 12:54:08 PM

Nope, I just somehow glossed over that one. But it's completely fine.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#386: Jun 20th 2022 at 12:55:39 PM

[up] Ah got it.

The Cliché Storm wick check IMO does show a lot of complaining. I remember we didn't take it to TRS because we didn't know what a solution would even look like. IIRC we made a cleanup thread.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jun 20th 2022 at 3:56:08 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#387: Jun 20th 2022 at 12:56:26 PM

I made a cleanup thread for it, which isn't very popular, but it exists nonetheless. Since it's there I'm not sure TRS is needed anyway, unless we revive the discussion and come up with a solution.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 20th 2022 at 3:56:56 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#388: Jun 20th 2022 at 7:03:12 PM

re Schizo Tech, it was brought up that "schizo" is technically a root word meaning "to split", but (as we expressed at the time) we find it difficult to believe that this was the intended reading, as opposed to using schizophrenia as a metaphor for inconsistency.

The only other English-language word we can think of containing that string is "schizoid", and... a quick internet search shows that that's derived from "schizophrenia" anyway, because of course it is.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#389: Jun 20th 2022 at 7:08:49 PM

Right, that's what it was. It should probably be renamed, I just wanted to double check the root-word argument.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#390: Jun 20th 2022 at 7:09:34 PM

[up]I agree that it should get renamed.

spyland2 Since: Jun, 2021
#391: Jun 20th 2022 at 7:33:01 PM

So I asked in the Narm cleanup thread here if the trope should be in TRS. If it should, I think maybe a rename could curb misuse, something like "Unintentional Funny Moment" or "Unintentional Comedy". If there's anything I'm missing, let me know, thanks.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#392: Jun 21st 2022 at 4:45:36 AM

[up] Given how prevalent the name is on this site I'm not sure a rename would be possible. I remember when Berserk Button got taken to TRS and a rename was ruled out due to massive use.

It's not completely impossible to make big changes like that though—What An Idiot got moved to Darth despite being prolific, and Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped is no more despite the prevalence of that trope too. I remember Hey Its That Guy and Hey Its That Voice being extremely common before they both got cut too.

Maybe wait for some more feedback.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#393: Jun 21st 2022 at 4:49:06 AM

Narm has less than half of Berserk Button's wicks though (doesn't grow nearly as fast either) and renamed tropes around 10k range before. BB has grown about almost 1000 wicks since the TRS thread so it's clearly not worth fixing haha Anyways, I am not entirely convinced a rename is going to fix the issue but I guess it's worth taking to the TRS

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 21st 2022 at 7:55:35 AM

Macron's notes
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#394: Jun 21st 2022 at 4:56:08 AM

[up]

Narm has less than half of Berserk Button's wicks though (doesn't grow nearly as fast either)

Well that's what I get for not checking. I guess a TRS thread is possible then.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#395: Jun 21st 2022 at 9:39:57 AM

What do you all think of Start to Corpse - "the time between the start of the show to a corpse being found to kickstart the plot" sounds un-tropey.

underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#396: Jun 26th 2022 at 7:34:33 PM

Quick skim: It's very untropey. Possibly a Fanspeak term? I've never heard it before.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#397: Jun 26th 2022 at 8:12:55 PM

Sounds easier to retool into a trope about some strangers finding a corpse as an inciting incident, if we don't have that already.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#398: Jun 26th 2022 at 8:44:37 PM

I made a TLP draft for that concept actually.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#399: Jun 28th 2022 at 1:58:21 PM

Hey, so I stumbled upon Face/Heel Double-Turn which already had a thread about renaming it. Now, the description actually mentions that it also covers instances where one character is revealed to be Good All Along and another Evil All Along… which is redundant with tropes like Wrong Side All Along and Reverse Relationship Reveal, and the examples that fit that are on here instead. Can I change that part of the description, or does it have to be taken to TRS first?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#400: Jul 3rd 2022 at 1:36:12 PM

Might want to ask the meta thread instead.

If nobody disputes I'll move the problematic examples out of the last two folders I checked; most of them just need to go to other folders.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 3rd 2022 at 4:37:36 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

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