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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#201: Nov 28th 2021 at 10:35:34 AM

Doc Ock was a pretty well-written character (like all Raimi villains, safe for Venom), don't think this is very surprising.

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Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#202: Nov 28th 2021 at 12:59:02 PM

I don't think Harry's particularly well-written either due to how all over the place his characterization is.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Nov 28th 2021 at 3:59:18 PM

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#203: Nov 28th 2021 at 1:13:40 PM

[up] In what way? I actually think he was quite consistent.

In being a horrible, entitled "All take and no give" friend with severe daddy issues (trying to please him even in death, despite being the victim of much psychological abuse from him), who had a Redemption Equals Death moment after finally coming to terms with both himself and his father.

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 28th 2021 at 10:20:24 AM

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jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#204: Nov 28th 2021 at 2:12:21 PM

Yes, the Raimi Harry was always acting as he did basically due to his Daddy Issues. Exacy how he acted did change based on how his feelings about and knowledge of his father, but that makes sense to me.

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miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#205: Nov 28th 2021 at 2:17:02 PM

We also basically see the guy devolve over the three films.

He noticeably gets worse in a believable manner.

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Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#206: Nov 28th 2021 at 2:21:46 PM

Fair enough.

The legend has returned.
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#207: Nov 28th 2021 at 2:31:29 PM

To be fair, it does depend on how much you buy the concept that his character is supposed to be changeable and erratic for the above reasons.

If you buy that, then his characterisation makes sense, of you don't then he does come across as just written inconsistently instead. It worked for me but I can see why not everyone would like it.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#208: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:25:25 PM

I really wish they had done a better job of showing that the butler wasn't actually there, and that Harry was talking to himself in the 3rd movie.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#209: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:28:10 PM

The third movie is a gigantic mess really

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Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#210: Nov 28th 2021 at 3:29:08 PM

My problem with Harry wasn't the writing which I felt made sense, a character devolving over three films. It was the acting, I never bought James Franco as the character or as a good actor personally, which I feel makes him come as far too unlikeable to a degree that even the script didn't plan for. So, I didn't really see any character getting worse and then redeeming himself, just a really smug and unlikeable friend from start to end.

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#211: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:19:46 PM

Weirdly, Harry Osbourne is only a thing these days because of Franco's performance. He'd been dead for a decade in comics and him being the tortured friend of Peter's was something brought back because of it.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#212: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:21:49 PM

Actually it was the 90s cartoon which did that,with the film taking cues from it

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jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#213: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:28:41 PM

The films took a lot of cues from the 90s series. That was my main exposure to Spidey as a child, so imagine my surprise when I pick up a Spidey comic and realize that Doc-Ock generally isn't a mentor to Peter Parker. As someone who loves the first two Spidey movies, I think they did Harry just fine.

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#214: Nov 28th 2021 at 4:53:45 PM

[up][up][up] And Harry was only brought back post OMD was so Joe Quesada and the other execs could take Spidey to where they thought he was at his best. Being a single bachelor, clubbing with Harry and Flash, and college aged.

Basically the Lee-Romita era all over again. They even were tempted to bring back Gwen Stacy but that was a bit much even for them.

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#215: Nov 28th 2021 at 5:08:34 PM

Oh God imagine if they did.

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#216: Nov 28th 2021 at 5:42:27 PM

I say if they really wanted to keep Spider-Man trapped in the past, they might as well have revived Gwen Stacy instead of giving Peter increasingly unlikeable love interests like his land lady and Carlie Cooper.

Like don't half ass it, or you get crap like BND that can't decide if it wants to be like the old Spidey or progress his character artificially.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 28th 2021 at 9:02:24 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#217: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:00:21 PM

Yeah, seconding that bringing back all of the "classic" core cast except the woman isn't exactly a good look.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#218: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:11:53 PM

That's because it wasn't just a return to the classic format, it was also at its core an overreaction to the idea of Spidey settling down.

So naturally, they ignored the classic female leads and tried to reintroduce Peter as a freewheeling bachelor with a rotating slew of sparkly new love interests until the fanbase got tired of it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 28th 2021 at 7:12:22 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#219: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:13:31 PM

Not like they were ever on board with it.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#220: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:20:26 PM

And now Spider Gwen probably makes them think they don't even need classic Gwen.

Hell, I feel like the reason Gwen's never been seriously revived is because, even to this day, no-one really knows what to do with her.

She was toted as Peter's main love interest for so long, with Stan pushing it harder and harder that it's kinda clear they never figured out who she is outside of that, to the point where Conway was able to kill her off (and he apparently wasn't totally serious about it, and even came up with some ways to potentially bring her back, hence the first clone saga) that never really caught on.

But you could also argue that Gwen was the first victim of this attitude that Peter must be a swinging bachelor long before OMD every became a thing. It was either marry her to Peter (with her maybe learning his secret) or kill her. They chose to kill her and curtail some of the actual story developments she could have had (like dealing with the truth of Peter's identity among other things).

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#221: Nov 28th 2021 at 9:54:56 PM

A shame Gwen wasn't returned, it might have justified the reboot.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#222: Nov 28th 2021 at 11:18:29 PM

Th issue is that Gwen have achive a sort of mythical status because his death was something else and afect peter, she become like a sort of female uncle ben so to speak: her death matter more than her life.

Which....yeah, is as awfull as it sound.

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#223: Nov 29th 2021 at 5:48:05 AM

As the old saying goes, the only people who remain dead in comics are Gwen Stacy, Jason Todd, and Bucky Barnes. Those are the sacred cows no writer messes with.

Yeah, that saying's a little outdated, wouldn't you say?

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#224: Nov 29th 2021 at 5:50:54 AM

I'm pretty sure that's not how the original saying goes, I remember Uncle Ben in it tongue

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Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#225: Nov 29th 2021 at 6:00:20 AM

Gwen is too iconic to ignore, yet far too dull to keep around

Dan Slott brought Gwen back during the Clone Conspiracy, gave her the knowledge of Peter's identity (revealed she learned it the day she died by regaining some consciousness on the bridge), and guess what? She was just as boring as she ever was, and after her 'heroic sacrifice' in that story, they haven't bothered bringing her back as the Conspiracy event was deemed a total sales flop.

Nick Spencer actually followed up on a lot of the clone plotlines that Slott left unresolved, using it to undo post-OMD Harry Osborn's stint in the comics and retcon the Sins Past event, but when it came to including Gwen, he just reduced her to a skeleton corpse again.

Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider is also boring, the shine has totally come off of her lately as the Spider-Verse has expanded and more interesting characters have come up from it, she can't sustain strong sales at all.

Edited by Zarius on Nov 29th 2021 at 6:06:27 AM


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