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Since we have a thread discussing the video game industry, I thought it would be appropriate to have a thread discussing the practices and going ons of the film and tv industries. Especially in light of recent news surrounding the sets of Batwoman and Rust.

This will not be about films and tv shows but rather about the practices and behind-the-scenes news affecting the industries.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#276: May 20th 2023 at 3:53:29 AM

They still got reruns, not all of them on the level of Friends or Sienfield but it was something that did happen and residuals got paid out for.

Sure and Disney aren’t going to bin the tapes. I’d expect them to start doing reruns or time bound uploads.

Part of the writer's strike goals (and hopefully will get pushed further if the actors and directors guilds also strike) is to get the studios to negotiate over streaming rights and pay.

Just saying "well, this is how it’s been before" is bad, because you aren't adapting for changing technologies.

I wasn’t responding to the strike, I was responding to the claims that stuff not being kept on streaming platforms 24/7 represented a radical change.

Content not sitting on a platform unwatched probably synergises with what the WGA are after. As they can then negotiate residuals for the period stuff is on the streaming service without companies feeling they’re gonna be paying money when getting no gain due to shows being unwatched.

Edited by Silasw on May 20th 2023 at 11:56:37 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#277: May 20th 2023 at 6:30:06 AM

I wasn't necessarily "responding" as such in the first place, more just laying out the talking point.

Edited by diddyknux on May 20th 2023 at 8:30:25 AM

M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#278: May 20th 2023 at 9:22:23 AM

The radical change is that corporations can prevent the product youve been working on from being officially distributed again or even be released even if its done. Removing shows and moving them to a different platform is one thing. Not preserving a show is another. But actively preventing consumers from seeing a product to not pay residuals is what Im talking about. This is connects to streaming services since thats the playground where we see this happening the most.

That is a dangerous precedent that could extend beyond streaming. There are probably cases for theatrical and television products meeting this fate that went under the radar. And no, we should not consider this a new ‘normal’.

Edited by M1gamiTensei on May 20th 2023 at 9:22:34 AM

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Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#279: May 20th 2023 at 9:33:47 AM

I think it's worth noting that the companies can't actually destroy their archives if they want this approach to work at all. They need to keep their material as intact as possible in order to prove it exists if any legal cases start up. Destroying a completed production before anyone sees it is a really great way to allow the people who made it to just...try and make it somewhere else with just enough details changed to dodge copyright on existing characters and concepts. Because sitting in court going "it totally existed, we just destroyed all the evidence of it existing and we can't prove that any work was actually done on it" isn't going to win you a case.

It's also proof to the IRS that the production actually happened and wasn't just a fake to try and get a tax rebate and to write off costs from other productions, and the IRS can repeatedly audit it for years if they really wanted to.

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#280: May 20th 2023 at 9:38:11 AM

I'd be curious to know how the IRS decides what should qualify for a write-off. You'd think with multi-million dollar projects, there'd be some stringent auditing involved.

Edited by diddyknux on May 20th 2023 at 11:39:29 AM

PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#281: May 20th 2023 at 9:42:28 AM

Wouldn't residuals be structured in a way that it's more profit sharing and the studios still rake in some money too, anyway? Which doesn't make sense to take stuff down if you're still going to make some money on it.

If not... I'm not sure why not. And if it's all about tax writeoffs or some such... ye gods, that needs to be seriously looked at as to whether it should exist at all in that form.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#282: May 20th 2023 at 9:50:08 AM

[up] Basically, since Hollywood's pretty much been taken over by the techbros and by execs who have no personal experience in filmmaking usually, their "ALL THE MONEY AT ALL TIMES" mindset has taken over and the obsession with basically "disrupting" Hollywood and turning it into a gig economy is coming from there too.

luisedgarf from Mexico Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
#283: May 20th 2023 at 11:56:08 PM

Personally, and also what I have read in other forums, the flat rate model does not seem to be sustainable anymore, as it is basically rewarding the mediocrity of unsuccessful productions. A more reasonable model would be the model used by Microsoft and Google Video, where you buy or rent what you want to see, and the public decides with their wallet the success or failure of a series or movie in streaming.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#284: May 21st 2023 at 2:05:30 AM

The radical change is that corporations can prevent the product youve been working on from being officially distributed again or even be released even if its done. Removing shows and moving them to a different platform is one thing. Not preserving a show is another. But actively preventing consumers from seeing a product to not pay residuals is what Im talking about.

But is that not just what cooperations could do pre-streaming? They’d take a show out of circulations. If you wanted to watch it you’d either buy a DVD/Video yourself or you’d rent one from a service like Blockbuster or original flavour Netflix.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#285: May 21st 2023 at 7:50:17 AM

[up][up]The thing is that still leaves the company in question with some sway and power over how much they have to pay the creators of a work (e.g. Invisible Advertising) and also can unfairly screw over works that just have the misfortune of bad release timing (e.g. COVID, albeit that's an extreme example).

Plus it's kind of hard to say a flat rate rewards mediocre productions on the grounds that, well, no one intentionally sets out to make a So Okay, It's Average work, and the fact is the companies still do pick and choose what does and doesn't get turned into a full production anyways.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
luisedgarf from Mexico Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
#286: May 21st 2023 at 12:43:40 PM

[up]I don't think it's much different than buying or renting a DVD or any physical media, which has been a proven method for years. The only difference is that the media in question is now digital and you don't have to worry about running out of X amount of product, as long you have the rights for it.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#287: May 24th 2023 at 10:48:53 AM

The MAX streaming service has gotten rid of specific writer/director credits in favor of a vague "creators" tag.

So Hollywood is actually really fucking strict about how credits are handled. iirc George Lucas got in major trouble for messing with them a tiny bit for the original Star Wars. Doing this with director credits could be enough to trigger a strike from them.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#288: May 24th 2023 at 10:55:58 AM

Yeah my understanding is that the only way Deadpool got to do creative opening credits was by doing all the opening credits that way so it counted as something in-film rather than actual opening credits.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#289: May 24th 2023 at 10:57:22 AM

[up][up]If it does trigger a director strike, I'm sure it'll be fine for the studios. The only way it'd be catastrophic and impossible to weather is if there were other strikes going on that'd force them to rely on streaming services in the meantime due to an inability to create more productions.

But what are the odds of that being the case if they're so brazen as to pull something like this?

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#290: May 24th 2023 at 11:01:55 AM

WBD apparently backpedaled earlier. However, the DGA put out a statement. They're not happy and are implying an imminent strike.

[up] I think the DGA striking would shut down or severely hamper postproduction since directors have their hands in a lot.

Edited by Karxrida on May 24th 2023 at 11:06:34 AM

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#291: May 24th 2023 at 11:05:36 AM

[up][up] I'm not quite sure you understand how essential a director is in the filmmaking process if you say that the DGA striking will "be fine for the studios."

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#292: May 24th 2023 at 11:12:49 AM

Shoulda potholed Sarcasm Mode there.[lol]My point was they're catastrophically stupid for trying this stunt when the writers are already on strike, much less since a lot of directors already expressed sympathy if not their own desire to strike in solidarity.

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ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#293: May 24th 2023 at 11:14:03 AM

[up][up][up] Post-production isn't the only thing that gets affected. A director isn't just some guy who sits in a chair and yell "CUT" or "ACTION" during filming. We don't quite know just how serious the effects of a DGA strike is, just because it's unprecedented, but it's generally agreed upon that the effects would be catastrophic for the industry.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#294: May 24th 2023 at 11:27:12 AM

Well, writers are already on strike and it feels like actors are on the way. Guess someone wanted to go three for three. Anyone else they want to piss off before summer?

Wake me up at your own risk.
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#295: May 24th 2023 at 11:43:23 AM

The WBD shareholders I guess. I don't think they're going to appreciate Zaslov triggering a trifecta strike.

Also the rest of Hollywood.

Edited by Karxrida on May 24th 2023 at 11:47:17 AM

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#296: May 24th 2023 at 11:57:11 AM

Too bad IATSE's not up for contract renewal until 2024.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#297: May 24th 2023 at 12:07:09 PM

IATSE having until 2024 though creates an interesting scenario though. If WBD keeps up their current behaviour, if they lose this strike and then attempt to start backsliding, that'll come to a head just in time for another strike to cripple Hollywood.

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#298: May 24th 2023 at 12:49:29 PM

IATSE going on strike is just as bad as the DGA doing so. When the AMPTP narrowly avoided an IATSE strike back in 2021, the streaming services were—to no one's surprise—the biggest holdouts when it came to providing better working conditions for the guild. And judging by their actions with the WGA? This could very well lead to another strike being threatened by IATSE next year.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#299: May 24th 2023 at 12:53:27 PM

For context, IATSE covers pretty much everyone who works behind the scenes. It's kinda hard to make a movie if you have no camera operators, sound engineers, editors, gophers, gaffers, craft services people, etc etc etc.

alnair20aug93 🍊orange fursona🧡 from 🐾Furrypines 🇵🇭 (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
🍊orange fursona🧡
#300: May 25th 2023 at 6:11:45 AM

Pardon to interrupt about what the current discussion is about. I don't know which thread I could put this.

I was watching this 40 minute video, and what I could grasp about this video is how films in recent year are changing directions. Into multiple directions, really. He's talking about metamodernism, which is a phase after postmoderninsm, where there're themes of multiverses, sincerity in a chaotic world, and accepting the meta concepts without being cynical and condescending, while discussing films like Top Gun: Maverick being a modernist film, and Everything Everywhere All at Once and films by A24 studios being described as metamodern films.

I don't know if future films and the industry would further follow suit with this.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on May 25th 2023 at 9:16:34 PM

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