Really a Useful Note: AFIS 100 Years 100 Movies

AFIS 100 Years 100 Movies, as well as the various other AFI movie lists, are currently listed in the Main namespace as tropes. This is despite the fact that the index page for them is in the Useful Notes namespace. The lists are obviously not tropes, they aren't wicked highly as tropes, and they would more likely work better as Useful Notes pages, assuming they are salvageable at all.

What should be done?

Not sure why this is open so soon. Nonetheless it's a nobrainer: this and other such lists should be Useful Notes/, simple as that!

nvm this

Edited by GrafVonTirol on Sep 12th 2021 at 9:16:32 AM

We move it to Useful Notes/ as suggested above.

Moving them to UsefulNotes/ is the clear-cut solution.

Same thing goes for The 50 Greatest Cartoons, another list on the Main/ namespace. That one could go on UsefulNotes/ (same logic as the AFI lists) or Literature/ (since it was published as a book).

Move to Useful Notes

It would need three trope examples for that; it only has one.

Useful Notes

Edit: Retracted.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 12th 2021 at 11:13:44 AM

Move to Useful Notes

I'd be fine moving them to Useful Notes, but wouldn't it make more sense just to cut these? I'm not sure if we should be copying a ranking from another site in the first place.

I had said "assuming they are salvageable at all", as I also considered what you said and included that as a potential option for that reason.

Move to UN.

Move to UN.

I'd argue it should be cut, since it is essentially copying a text in its entirety from another source (insofar as something like this could be considered a "work") without anything substantial being added.

It seems like keeping the entire list is a bit inconsistent with the usual way we handle copy-pasted material like this.

Edited by HeavyMetalHermitCrab on Sep 11th 2021 at 10:29:23 AM

I have some concerns that copying a list like this could be copyright infringement - it's a creatively chosen list and as such the American Film Institute can claim copyright. And replicating it whole would not fall under fair use. Not to mention Heavy Metal Hermit Crab's point.

So I cannot approve of moving this list somewhere else. The better play would be to either cut the list or redirect it to American Film Institute. And mention its existence in American Film Institute.

Perhaps we could also include links to the offsite lists on the AFI page as well.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Sep 12th 2021 at 7:06:48 AM

Eh, I'd be ok with a cut too.

Move to UN

I support a cut on the following grounds:

• We are directly copying a copyrighted work without permission and are not making a substantially transformative use. The AFI requires explicit permission to copy its content.
• These lists offer no value to our site in terms of an understanding of tropes.
• We expressly state that critical reception and reviews are off-topic for our articles. Their hypothetical value as Trivia is insufficient to overcome these other issues.

Speaking more broadly, the insistence some people have on documenting these sorts of lists on TV Tropes adds clutter without contributing any value. If someone really cares what the Institute of Egghead Film Critics cares about The Fifty Most Racist Movies of All Time, they can go to that site. We do not owe them anything.

Our article on the American Film Institute should be cut as well. It does not qualify under our guidelines for either a Creator or Useful Notes article as it does not produce tropable content and is not referenced in creative media.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 12th 2021 at 6:24:49 AM

Cut.

Cut.

In case I haven’t already made it clear, I support a cut.

Yeah, on that grounds, changing to cut.

What would this mean for other related lists, like those from TIME and Rolling Stone for example? I imagine the same?

Yes, they should all be cut. TV Tropes is not a site to reproduce lists by other people. They have no value as indexes, as tropes, or as Useful Notes. Topic creep should be resisted.