Yeah, probably, just move them to The Team and they'll be fine.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
On the sandbox, there are 8 examples under unsorted that include a Sixth Ranger mention. I don't know enough about each to judge on my own but they are:
- Knights of the Old Republic
- Star Wars
- Inception
- The Avengers (2012)
- Animorphs
- Power Rangers
- Final Fantasy XIII
- Kingdom Hearts II
By the logic just presented by warjay, these would all be considered misuse of the trope and moved to the team then? am i getting that right?
Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 12th 2021 at 8:41:32 AM
What about having one version of that same team team pre sixth ranger who fits the Five Man Band and have that version in the TIA? Then when The Sixth Ranger joins it turns into The Team.
Edited by MikeMikeMikeMikeMike on Oct 13th 2021 at 7:36:56 PM
Yeah, I never said teams with a Sixth Ranger can't count, but the examples can't mention them and if they were always part of the team, then it wasn't an example to begin with.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallOK I think I get it. We should make it clear in the trope description then (emphasizing the no sixth ranger mentions and encouraging people to move those over to The Team. I feel like there are going to be many who were used to the.....flexibility of the old FMB trope who may want to continue to use it virtually the same
Thing is, FMB was not a flexible trope. Actually, it was by far the most rigid and inflexible trope I've ever seen. Anybody who thought it was flexible was probably doing it wrong.
Unless that's what you meant by "flexibility", of course.
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 13th 2021 at 4:28:27 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
I don't think the specificity was the issue so much as it was the fact that the trope as described was just too uncommon. If after making the trope in aggregate, a distinct 5 man team with narrowly defined roles keeps popping up, then making a subtrope of that version would be totally fine.
Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 13th 2021 at 11:36:21 AM
That, plus the lack of flexibility meant that it couldn't be played with or evolve like tropes naturally can be and do. The needs of the pattern trumped the actual trope's usage and flexibility, assuming it was a trope to begin with.
Anyway, do we need a definition crowner?
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI guess? Issue is, right now we're just sort of spinning our wheels and discussing issues that aren't really related to the "which definition" question. I'd see it as hasty if were knee-deep in discussion, but we're really not. At most, we might need to flesh out "B" more to give it a fighting chance.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI'd like to put my vote behind changing the "Chick" designation to the gender-neutral "Heart". Whether that debate or any other is resolved anytime soon, I'd also like to put forward some suggestions for new additions once the article is open for editing again (more will come):
ANIME & MANGA
Sailor Moon
- Leader: Usagi
- Lancer: Rei
- Smart Guy: Ami
- Big Guy: Makoto
- Chick/Heart: Minako
Yu-Gi-Oh (Duelist Kingdom arc)
- Leader: Yugi
- Lancer: Joey
- Smart Guy: Bakura
- Big Guy: Tristan
- Chick/Heart: Tea
- 6th Ranger: Mai
LITERATURE
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (Ministry rescue mission)
- Leader: Harry Potter
- Lancer: Ron Weasely
- Smart Guy: Hermione Granger
- Big Guy: Neville Longbottom
- Chick/Heart: Ginny Weasely
- 6th Ranger: Luna Lovegood
LIVE-ACTION FILM
Hocus Pocus
- Leader: Max Dennison. Unhappy high schooler with no imagination and thinks he's cooler because of it. Stupidly follows a prophecy that causes three child-killing witches to return from the dead, nearly costing his own life and those of many other innocents. Does come around to being a hero in the end.
- Lancer: Allison. Max's crush who's completely unimpressed by his above-it-all attitude. Highly knowledgeable about the history of the witches, she displays much more savvy and practicality when dealing with them (not afraid to get her hands dirty). Eventually warms up to Max when he realizes the scope of the problem.
- Smart Guy: Thackeray Binx. 17th-century settler who got turned into an immortal black cat while trying to save his sister from the witches. Gives the normies background and guidance - plus a few metaphorical slaps in the face - as they take on the resurrected baddies (role occasionally blurs with that of the leader).
- Big Guy: William "Billy" Butcherson. Reanimated corpse of the witches leader's former flame- whom she poisoned for infidelity. A tall, imposing man with strong protective instincts, he apparently nurtured a grudge against the witches for 300 years and joined the good guys at the earliest opportunity.
- Chick/Heart: Dani Dennison. Max's snarky 8-year old sister with a surprisingly savvy understanding of how the world works. Also easily accepts the supernatural elements of the evening's adventure and deals with them on their own terms, occasionally even chewing her brother out for not taking them seriously enough.
The Last Legion (group that escorts Romulus to Britannia)
- Leader: Aurelius
- Lancer: Demetrius
- Smart Guy: Ambrosinus
- Big Guy: Batiatus
- Chick/Heart: Mira
Wonder Woman (2017)
- Leader: Steve Trevor. Everyman and man-of-the-world (i.e. understands life is not perfect) on a mission to do good for others.
- Lancer: "Diana Prince". God-tier bruseier (literally) who starts out innocent and naive before learning some hard lessons and ultimately deciding to believe in love.
- Smart Guy: Sameer. Multi-lingual undercover specialist who understands that everyone must fight battles in their own way.
- Big Guy: The Chief. Physically towering but generally quiet explosives expert who's also handy with a gun and a tomahawk.
- Chick/Heart: Charlie. Jovial sharpshooter with a voice of gold. Reminds the group of life's simple pleasures beyond the battlefield.
- 6th Ranger: Etta Candy. Perky assistant who's not afraid to get verbally snarky or physically confrontational.
LIVE-ACTION TV
Bones: The core forensics and investigative team of the Jeffersonian Institute (not counting the rotating cast of "squint-erns", though they often have significant storylines in their own right).
- Leader: Dr. Temperance "Bones" Brennan. Lead forensic anthropologist and top in her field. Introduced as classic "loner genius" with authoritative opinions and limited understanding of or even patience for social conventions. Becomes more open/stable over time without losing any personality.
- Lancer: Dr. Camille Saroyan. Lead pathologist who sometimes clashes with Brennan and other team members over the viability/legitimacy of their methods. Officially the head of the team but has admitted more than once that Brennan is the one who commands the real loyalties.
- Smart Guy: Dr. Jack Hodgins. Self-professed "Bugs and slime guy". Has doctorates in entomology, botany, and mineralogy. Analyzes environmental elements for clues and generally the most cheerful/enthusiastic member of the team (sometimes a little too enthusiastic).
- Big Guy: Special Agent Seeley Booth. FBI liaison with the forensics team and generally the strong, stoic type. Former military sniper who's often baffled by the team's detached intellectualism, but brings a down-to-earth realism (and occasional humor) to each investigation.
- Chick/Heart: Angela Montenegro. Snarky artist and computer genius who specializes in facial reconstruction and virtual scenario recreation. Has the highest EQ and often walks the scientists of the team (especially her best friend Brennan) through "normal" social situations.
- 6th Ranger: Dr. Lance Sweets. Psychologist introduced partway through the series who consults with friends and families of victims, as well as counseling members of the team. Often written off for his youth but ultimately leaves massive and unexpected impacts on all of them by the end.
Game of Thrones: The Stark siblings. Although they never actually operate as a whole unit due to plot mechanics, over the course of the series they do align with the typical roles.
- Leader: Robb. The eldest son and presumptive heir to the family seat of Winterfell. Skilled in combat and other traditionally masculine areas but relatively naive about the larger political circumstances of his actions, which ultimately leads to his downfall.
- Lancer: Sansa. The eldest daughter and who starts off as a naive "girly-girl" type. Despite being frequently written off for this trait, she is able to internalize many key political lessons, and then leverage them into both keen understanding and lasting power.
- Smart Guy: Bran. Possesses magical abilities to see everything that has occurred in the past and everything that is occurring in the present. Unable to walk - and, by extension, fight - but can mentally control the bodies of others and see/feel as they do.
- Big Guy: Arya. Despite her small size she is definitely the fiercest fighter, having trained in combat with multiple weapons, as well as mastered the in-universe equivalent of espionage. Has little patience for nonsense and typically solves problems by stabbing.
- Chick/Heart: Rickon. The youngest and most innocent. Typically the one that others most often try to protect, sometimes causing them to take rash or unconventional actions. This instinct is ultimately exploited by the enemy and leads to his fate and that of others.
- 6th Ranger: Jon Snow. The bastard half-sibling who is largely removed from most of the early plotlines but, when circumstances later require it, steps firmly into the leadership role. Subtly embodies traits from all the main siblings and their archetypes.
Mystic Knights of Tir Na Nog
- Leader: Rohan. The Knight of Fire. Classic reluctant hero archetype; orphan who discovers he has a grand destiny and often struggles with carrying the responsibilities and expectations of an entire kingdom. Will do just about anything to fulfill his duties and protect the ones he loves.
- Lancer: Ivar. The Knight of Water. A foreign prince who pledges himself to the group after Rohan saves his life. Is sometimes pulled between his two worlds, has been known to give Rohan pep talks, and frequently accompanies him when the group splits up to accomplish multiple missions.
- Smart Guy: Angus. The Knight of Earth. Rohan's childhood best friend and a skilled thief. Sometimes disparaged by society for his trade and frequently the butt of jokes, his cleverness has gotten the group out of multiple scrapes (sometimes without him even trying), and his loyalty is earned and unquestionable.
- Big Guy: Garrett. The Knight of Forest. Another foreign prince and the most overtly martial/best warrior of the group. He also fills the role of 6th Ranger, being introduced later in the series, starting off as very haughty/arrogant, and is brainwashed by the Big Bad before ultimately being rescued and joining up.
- Chick/Heart: Deidre. The Knight of Air. Princess of Kells, heir to the throne, and extremely strong-willed. Always keeping the interests of her kingdom in mind, she is never afraid to call out anyone - including her father, the king - on their bullshit (though she does have a notable soft side).
WESTERN ANIMATION
Captain Planet and the Planeteers
- Leader: Kwame
- Lancer: Wheeler
- Smart Guy: Linka
- Big Guy: Gi
- Chick/Heart: Ma-Ti
Teen Titans
- Leader: Robin
- Lancer: Raven
- Smart Guy: Cyborg
- Big Guy: Beast Boy
- Chick/Heart: Starfire
- 6th Ranger: Terra
Edited by Gotlvr87 on Nov 29th 2021 at 11:35:55 AM
J.H.B.
You might want to read the rest of this thread. That was already resolved. In fact, the entire FMB format as we know it is about to be scrapped.
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I drafted proposal B. We can try to flesh it out more, but keeping it very general was the point in order to emphasize that FMB is just a container to play with different Power Trio, Duo Tropes, and Quad Tropes
It's been quite a while and nobody's fleshed out B all that much. It could be merged with A, if that's OK, or it could just be left out of the final definition. Either way, it seems like consensus has fallen on A.
TRS Wick Cleaning
I think the amount of examples alone proves our point, at least once we take an axe to every example that doesn't have the correct member amount. The description will also explain why these teams are so prevalent.
Alright, so... what now? It genuinely feels like everything's been resolved, unless I'm missing something obvious.
TRS Wick CleaningWell, we need to put the vote to practice now and start the Cleanup... Which we should probably use the LTP thread for.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallIt sure can. For example, Blue Is Heroic was declared a TIA recently, and it still has on-page examples. The only thing cut was misuse. All that it means is that the trope is in the pattern, and individual examples don't necessarily mean anything in isolation.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?

Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 12th 2021 at 8:34:46 AM