We're Still Relevant, Dammit! discussion

Since the TRS thread was closed, and no one else has done it, I thought I would open the Trope Talk thread for Were Still Relevant Dammit

Resume walking in circles the discussion here.

Edited by Delibirda on Aug 16th 2021 at 3:51:30 PM

Not sure how reopening a similar thread in trope talk is going to help to be honest,that usually means there's a lack of interest

Actually it's like what happened to Hate Sink. We need to hash things out here first.

Excactly.

> We need to hash things out here first.

Action such as?

It would be helpful if the original poster had some idea,maybe summarise the previous thread

Uh, speaking of, something is going on with The Simpsons. Someone like custom named it, and now linking it looks like this.

The Simpsons. <——

Hello, I'm the original poster for the TRS. Let me give a recap of the story.

I wanted to start a wick check for this trope when, after an example for it was brought up in the "removing bashing" (IIRC) thread, I realized that a bunch of examples summed up to "Recent piece from a Long Runner makes references to technology that wasn't out when the series/franchise first came out and this is bad". So, after doing a wick check, I brought it up to the TRS where... well, stuff happened, including a troper that had very clear ideas about how to fix the trope but then blanked all their posts and nobody remembers exactly what they said.

In any case, some of the ideas that came out in the thread were:

• Moving the trope to Darth Wiki.
• Renaming the trope because the current name sounds too complainy.
• Making it a Definition Only Page.
• Some even thought it should be sent to the Permanent Red Link Club because it's a bit too much like a complaining version of Comic-Book Time and Technology Marches On, and replace it with a new trope called Pop Culture Creep.

Ultimately, the TRS was closed with no clear ideas on what to do with it.

Excactly.

I'm at a loss myself. I'm tempted to say cut the trope since no one knows how to salvage it, but I still think there's a trope there, about works trying to add "modern" content to stay relevant.

Here's an idea—remove the requirement that the work be a Long Runner and instead make it about any work set in the "present day", sort of like works set in the Nebulous Now idea proposed over at the Unintentional Period Piece TRS except said works try to add "modern things" to stay relevant. It differs from UPP in that UPP is about whole works that have become very dated, while WSRD would be about single references or one-off episodes added solely to be "relevant". Also, these references or episodes would not have to be dated, per se, rather they would just be something off-puttingly modern in a supposedly timeless setting.

(edit to provide a theoretical example) An example of this would be like if a cartoon like SpongeBob or MLP suddenly made a reference to Twitter or dabbing. These works are set in a hypothetical "present", but were they to make such a modern reference it would be very off-putting, and I think worthy of an Audience Reaction.

I admit I have little confidence in this idea, but it's all I can currently come up with. What does everyone else think?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 18th 2021 at 9:12:58 AM

We can also remove the requirement that it must fall flat or be cringey. That's why the trope is so often used as "Modern reference bad"- because the trope itself takes a negative approach to it.

Perhaps.

So I was thinking of when The Simpsons did an intro referencing the Harlem Shake, and I realized that a moment like that wouldn't count under my previous proposal, since The Simpsons isn't set in a "timeless" setting. I'm trying to think of a different way to save WSRD now—any other ideas? I think WarJay's idea of removing the requirement that it be done poorly may work—something like that happened to Franchise Original Sin recently to help with complaining on that trope. I can't think of much else though.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Aug 19th 2021 at 7:23:13 AM

I've kind of thrown up my hands here, honestly. Something along the lines of what the trope's trying to describe is self-evidently a "thing", but I'm inclined to view it as an inherently arbitrary and fairly stupid thing, which makes it really hard to trope in any kind of meaningful way.

I still don't actually like my suggestion of moving it to Darth Wiki, though.

Yeah, this is the main problem with the trope. I see it too much as "Complaining about Comic-Book Time and Technology Marches On"

I'm tempted to just say cut WSRD. If no one knows how to fix it, and it adds little value to the site other than complaining and misuse, maybe that's the only option.

I feel like one change might be to change the "cringey" requirement to an "in-your-face" one. Under this, simple incorporation of something "contemporary" wouldn't qualify, but making an effort to draw attention to it would be. This would involve making it value-neutral (that is, not inherently good or bad) like what we did with anvilicious.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Aug 21st 2021 at 12:37:15 PM

Were Still Relevant Dammit is basically about a work constantly chasing trends, and combined with things like Animation Lead Time and Unintentional Period Piece may not be as topical when it premieres as they hope. It doesn't necessarily have to be a long runner, but it certainly helps if a work was created in one particular era and feels it has to constantly keep up to date.

as i recall, the previous thread had a specific definition using each word in the name:

• We're: it must be an active effort by the creators
• Still: the work must have gone long enough to need "fresh material"
• Relevant: the content is an attempt to stay current
• Dammit: the content feels shoehorned and ham-fisted

i felt like that was a good way to sort it out, but i haven't seen much of the further discussion past that

Edited by NoUsername on Aug 21st 2021 at 1:16:45 AM

Well, IIRC that guideline was posted by a now-bounced user who deleted all their post, so we can't really follow up on the discussion. I'm also not sure how we can gauge whether the examples actually fit that criteria given how most of them are just "reference = bad" kind of complaining entries.

And we also have examples of "works that try to incorporate trends that are already obsolete" (e.g. a work released in 2021 shoehorns a meme that has fallen out of favour since 2017). Do they go somewhere?

As drastic as it would be, I'm also tempted to say either cut or make it Definition Only. I feel like in theory, there is something worth saying about The Simpsons doing that Harlem Shake parody (which, off the record, I personally found amusing) and the subsequent reaction, but in practice, it just leads to complaining about any modern reference or technology present in a show.

I personally think moving it to Darth Wiki isn't the right course of action, since it's not as complainy-y as, say, So Bad, It's Horrible.

Yes, I second making it definition only.

Thirding def-only

See, my only concern is that it's not really fanspeak-ish. It's a stock-phrase-y title rather than an actual name.

Maybe this is just me but I always find it odd to add "tropes" like this to definition-only. It's a definition we made up to discuss works doing cringe. IDK, just feels wrong.

I get your concern, but the only other realistic option here is cut, and I’m not sure people are up for that.

I think we should at least try other options before making it Definition-Only.