Misused: Wake Up Go To School Save The World

That also doesn’t cover it.

Why not? I’m confused.

Uh, what are you basing your definitions off of, Memers? The description covers none of those things.

I'm confused as well? Either you aren't getting our point, or we aren't getting yours.

Like why does whether they do handle all aspects of their life successfully or not matter enough to get a split? This can be part of the trope's new definition; "some teen heroes are good at this while other teens fail at it" or something. Creating a third trope just for when a teen succeeds at balancing heroism and their social life is gonna make it more confusing, at least imo.

Does anyone else actually agree with the split idea? I think it'd be more confusing, personally, especially since none of Memer's points seem to be coming from anything...that actually exists.

I can't quite make out what Memers is trying to say, but it does feel like the trope is trying to be multiple things.

First you have what I believe to be the original intention, something along the lines of Heroism Is Easy Life Is Hard where the hero finds homework to be more difficult than battling giant monsters. This does not need to be school-specific. If Superman found writing articles as Clark Kent to be harder than catching falling planes or battling Darkseid, that would also be an example.

I believe that's distinct enough from any concept of Heroism Life Balance to be its own trope. I don't think we need to distinguish between cases where the character succeeds in balancing mundane life and heroism and those where the character fails. It only matters that the character tries and the work shows it. Again, this is also not school-specific. To go back to Superman, this could be him fighting a massive super battle, having to cancel a dinner with Lois because it went on too long, and only managing to write his required news article because of his super speed.

And then finally you have the Student Hero who literally wakes up, goes to school, and saves the world.

^ Isn't the second definition covered by Part-Time Hero?

Yup, it covers two tropes at once: Socially Awkward Hero and Student Hero. The description says it's the teen ver of Part-Time Hero, so it can't be that one.

I think it originally was meant to be about Student Heroes judging by its name, but later got changed with time, and everyone used it for what they thought it meant.

It just needs a redefinition that makes it clear it's about Student Heroes and that's all. No need to complicate it.

Weirdly enough, the Part-Time Hero description says it includes all Wake Up, Go to School & Save the World stories.

If it's a subtrope, then yeah, that's true.

Let's work this out systematically. It seems like there are two dimensions to consider:

1. The type of struggle the hero is facing:
   • Dating issues
   • More boring everyday life
   • Issues with time management between the two lives
2. The hero's age:
   • Young/student
   • Older/workplace

Here's how I see the three tropes in question currently occupying the space in this matrix (according to their descriptions):

Observations:

• Wake Up, Go to School & Save the World seems to cover all the struggles for younger heroes
• Part-Time Hero seems to cover all the struggles for older heroes
• Socially Awkward Hero seems to overlap with the two tropes on the "Social confidence" item

Suggestions:

There are several ways forward. We could decide to make Socially Awkward Hero exclusively for "Social confidence issues" and reduce the scope of the other two tropes accordingly. We could even do away with the Young/Old dichotomy and have one trope for the Hero/RL troubles, perhaps renamed as Heroism Is Easy Life Is Hard as previously suggested.

Thoughts?

Edit: Corrected scope of Socially Awkward Hero

Edited by eroock on Aug 22nd 2021 at 2:04:09 AM

The thing is, there's nothing that says Socially Awkward Hero and Part-Time Hero only apply to adults. In fact, both tropes have examples that involve teenaged characters.

Edited by RustBeard on Aug 21st 2021 at 12:29:56 PM

I think Socially Awkward Hero should have nothing to do with this trope and Part-Time Hero. It seems to deal with an entirely different thing.

I do think there’s merit to a distinction between balancing teenage concerns and adult concerns, even if there is some overlap.

I... didn't expect the discussion to go like this. I thought it was a quick and simple issue.

Anyway, both Socially Awkward Hero and Part-Time Hero already include all age groups. Socially Awkward Hero is literally Heroism Is Easy Life Is Hard regardless of age. Part-Time Hero covers teens but isn't specifically about student heroes and having to balance heroism & school.

Not all teen/Kid Heroes go to school in fiction, and maybe the story doesn't even mention other aspects of their lives. Thus, Wake Up, Go to School & Save the World would specifically be for teens who do, and honestly, even if we consider a merge, I still like this name more. Adults have social and romantic struggles like teens, but teens have entire school stories going on sometimes besides heroism.

Lol, I thought it'd be simple too.

I think the teen version stands out for a few reasons. Teens aren't independent yet and have parents who expect them to be home by a certain time. They are still developing and are often obsessed with dates, popularity, and having fun, which is a lot for a teenage hero to stress over. They'll likely have bullies who get away with it because the hero can't reveal their identity or wants to use their powers for good.

Teens are limited and to them life seems and feels more dramatic. So it makes sense to keep it separate.

I mean I could see a trope about a hero balancing their duties with school. We just might have to redefine Part-Time Hero to be specifically for adult characters.

Well, as we discussed, not all teens go to school in fiction (especially in fantasy settings), and some adults do (college, weirdo immortals stuck as teenagers, etc.).

Edited by Eiryu on Aug 21st 2021 at 6:05:19 AM

"Weirdo immortals stuck as teenagers" made me giggle, so thanks for the laughs, Eiryu.

I want to summarize everything that's been suggested here and see our options, but I'm not sure what exactly was being proposed and if it's really helpful to the case, so correct me if I'm wrong.

• Splitting WUGTSSTW into 1) student heroes struggling to balance heroism & social & school life and 2) student heroes who perfectly manage to do this.
• Redefine it and move examples to fitting tropes.
• Merge both Part-Time Hero & WUGTSSTW into one trope renamed as Heroism Is Easy Life Is Hard, because the dichotomy between adults & teens might be unnecessary.

So, hmm. If we make a crowner, here's how we can phrase the options:

• Redefine to mean "teen hero with mundane life", move the resulting misuse elsewhere.
• Split into two tropes: One for teen heroes who struggle, and one for teen heroes who don't.
• Merge with Part-Time Hero into a "Heroism Is Easy, Life Is Hard" trope.

I think a Heroism Is Easy Life Is Hard supertrope is viable regardless, but unless we go with the merger, such a trope doesn't need to be part of the cleanup effort.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 22nd 2021 at 3:05:57 PM

^ We also need a solution for the Socially Awkward Hero overlap. All three tropes in question want to cover the issue of heroes excelling at heroism but sucking at dating without offering any difference in their approach.

Edited by eroock on Aug 22nd 2021 at 3:37:23 AM

Well, sucking at dating isn't part of Part-Time Hero.

Again:

• Socially Awkward Hero is literally just Heroism Is Easy Life Is Hard.
• Part-Time Hero is balancing heroism with their other lives & wanting to live a mundane life — the adult™ ver. Has nothing to do with social confidence or finding heroism easy.

Originally, we wanted to redefine WUGTSSTW to be like PTH but for student heroes, so it can match its name and avoid more confusion. PTH has a pothole to WUGTSSTW for a reason. It's already a supertrope in itself. So why do we need to create another broader trope for all of them when the adults and teens situations are different enough to be separated?

Besides, should we really make a crowner rn when no one supported the split or merge suggestions so far?

I don't think either WUGTSSTW or Part-Time Hero have duplication problems with Socially Awkward Hero. Socially Awkward Hero is about someone who struggles socially. Part-Time Hero and WUGTSSTW are about balancing the duties between two lives—and okay, sometimes that might involve being bad with social lives, and a Socially Awkward Hero might have two lives to balance as well—but I don't think they really have anything to do with each other at all.

Edited by Eiryu on Aug 22nd 2021 at 3:02:49 AM

^^ and ^ Fair enough, PTH does not deal with sucking at dating. But WUGTSSTW and SAH do. So which of the two tropes applies to let's say Violet from Incredibles 2 who is a Little Miss Badass when doing hero stuff but who is totally out of her depth when her crush Tony is around. her character sheet currently lists her as WUGTSSTW.

Edited by eroock on Aug 22nd 2021 at 1:23:43 AM

She can be both? Characters can have more than one trope applied to them.

Nothing in the name "Socially Awkward Hero" covers well 'neglect' that happens being a Hero, which is what happens you neglect your friends, family, schoolwork, job etc. Its more comparable to Cops who have no life cause they are too busy working cases.

Socially Awkward Hero should be just a 'Socially Awkward' hero, for what ever reason, could be an act like Clark Kent or busy like Spiderman or be actually damaged like Batman or be an actual disability.

Edited by Memers on Aug 22nd 2021 at 2:54:09 AM