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Cleanup Thread: Character Specific Pages

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Character-Specific Pages (CSPs) are created when individual characters have so many trope examples that they can't reasonably be included on a shared page.

The Administrivia Character-Specific Pages policy details the rules that apply to these pages. All Character-Specific Pages must also follow the basic How to Create a Character Page policy, as well as the wiki's more general policies about spoilers and examples.


This cleanup thread handles the following tasks:

  • Reviewing and approving new CSP proposals. All new potential CSPs must be reviewed and, if necessary, cleaned up before they're created.
  • Agreeing on page names for new CSPs.
  • Ensuring that wicks are updated when a new CSP is created.
  • Reviewing existing CSPs if there's a concern that they need cleanup, or if it's believed that the character may no longer qualify for a page.
  • Merging existing CSPs into other character pages when necessary.
  • Ensuring that wicks are updated when a CSP is removed/merged.
  • Creating, updating and cutting redirects, as necessary, to reflect these splits and merges.

Crowners are not normally required but, where appropriate, can be used to formalise decisions on any of these points.

If a character no longer qualifies for a CSP, it's often more practical to turn the CSP into a redirect than to cut the page entirely. This keeps the page history visible to users, and also helps to steer offsite 'inbound' traffic (search engine results) to the right place. With that in mind, cut requests for CSPs may be declined and referred to this thread if they don't have a clear consensus.

Comments linking back to this thread can be added to CSPs when needed - e.g. to confirm their creation was approved, to warn tropers that a cleanup is in progress, or to note the date and outcome of a more recent review.


We also have some more general threads for character page help -
  • Character Page Cleanup: for trope misuse, zero-context examples, spoiler tagging issues etc.
  • Are these character tropes?: for queries about whether particular tropes belong on a character page or on the work's page.
  • Character pages for the Marvel Cinematic Universe have a dedicated thread here.
If these issues are spotted for a CSP, they are on-topic here as well — but as they're not the focus of this thread, you might sometimes choose to raise them on one of the others instead.
This is not a policy discussion thread, it's a cleanup thread — any requests for policy changes need to be raised in Wiki Talk.
Mod update 07 Mar 2024, reflecting new CSP policy, updated again 22 Mar 2024 to mention redirects for removed CSPs
    Text of original pinned post 
There are several persistent issues with the quality of Character Specific Pages. Now that there are official requirements for creating new pages, this thread can be hub for cleaning up pages with issues or that don't qualify. The requirements settled on are as follows, and its recommended that a page meet two or more to stand on its own:

  1. Other options must have been tried first, like splitting pages into further groups.
  2. The character's folder is cleaned up beforehand, fixing any Zero-Context Examples and Wall of Text entries and removing any outdated, misused, or non-character tropes.
  3. A character's folder is at least 6,000 words/40,000 characters (with spaces). Here is a byte counter.note 
  4. The current character page bypasses technical limitations and requires a split up.
  5. A single character takes up the majority of a page or is disproportionately bigger than other folders.

Splitting a character into their own page is a major change and needs to be run by the community before it is enacted. Even if you believe a character meets these requirements, they should be run through this thread first. Having other tropers take a look can help spot issues you may not notice or believe to be issues.

Per How to Create a Character Page, character-specific pages should only include tropes that describe the character. These tropes should fall under Characterization Tropes or one of its related indexes, unless they're recurring character traits (distinctive things that the character does repeatedly). If you're unsure what counts as a character trope, you can ask the Are these Character Tropes? thread.

If you have concerns with a general character page, they have their own separate cleanup thread, as do the self-demonstrating character pages.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on May 28th 2024 at 8:53:56 PM

CrimsonShark Punk Rocker from The Internet of Loneliness and Beyond Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
#1601: Jun 11th 2022 at 5:22:13 PM

I'm in favor of giving the MCU its own thread regarding Character-Specific Pages, and I say this because it really sucks to have a forum derail the discussions to focus solely on a singular series and have it overshadow everything else. And I say this with experience.

WHERE IS KRYPTO, I mean, WHERE IS THE DOG!!!
IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#1602: Jun 11th 2022 at 5:57:59 PM

Agreed

Are there objections to this?[up]

Edited by IkeaHan on Jun 11th 2022 at 5:58:21 AM

Character Specific Page cleanup
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#1603: Jun 11th 2022 at 6:06:38 PM

I agree with [up][up]. Honestly it's getting a bit annoying having stuff grind to a halt because we constantly have to talk about one singler franchise

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
RinneSharinganCatalyst 小柏 カイ from the ricefields Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
小柏 カイ
#1604: Jun 11th 2022 at 6:09:14 PM

I also vote for any MCU-related stuff have its own thread as well.

[up][up]Nope, No objections

Over 900 years, he shall recover his heartbeat. Over 90 years, he shall recover his intellect. Over 9 years, he shall recover his power.
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#1605: Jun 11th 2022 at 6:09:44 PM

MCU should get its own thread, as it's clogging up this one.

2025: the year it all ends?
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1606: Jun 11th 2022 at 6:28:53 PM

Someone mind making it and linking to it here? I’d do it myself, but I’m on mobile right now

DoctorSleep Since: Nov, 2013
#1607: Jun 12th 2022 at 6:38:59 AM

I've created one now. CleanupThread/MCUCharacterPages

Edited by DoctorSleep on Jun 12th 2022 at 6:39:38 AM

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1608: Jun 14th 2022 at 4:31:22 PM

I want to move Characters.Dragon Ball Super to a new page a redirect the original to Characters.Dragon Ball but I can't figure out what to call it as Dragon Ball Multiverse is taken. Thoughts?

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#1609: Jun 14th 2022 at 4:40:02 PM

I mean, the indication is that it's for characters introduced in Super. If you want to have it include info on other Dragon Ball characters, the easiest solution would be to have some smaller index that redirects to those particular pages.

Edited by IkeaHan on Jun 14th 2022 at 5:14:44 AM

Character Specific Page cleanup
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1610: Jun 14th 2022 at 4:52:24 PM

Well the thing is Characters.Dragon Ball Z and Characters.Dragon Ball GT both redirect to the main Dragon Ball Character Index, so I wanted to make Characters.Dragon Ball Super the same. All of the multiverse stuff could probably be its own page, but again Characters.Dragon Ball Multiverse is taken.

I would like to advocate for a overhaul of the Characters page in general, but thats another thing entirely.

Edited by GateStarX on Jun 14th 2022 at 4:53:44 AM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#1611: Jun 15th 2022 at 6:49:19 AM

Yes to a specific MCU thread, but link to it here somehow.

IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#1612: Jun 15th 2022 at 8:22:43 AM

[up] You'll find it further up on here

Character Specific Page cleanup
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#1613: Jun 16th 2022 at 3:11:51 PM

Would it be ok if I launch (if that's the right term for it) the page Elfen Lied Lucy?

IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#1614: Jun 16th 2022 at 6:27:10 PM

I wasn't sure if we should. I made the sandbox thinking someone who's read the Manga could fact check everything.

Character Specific Page cleanup
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1615: Jun 16th 2022 at 9:34:42 PM

Well, I stumbled on Marvel Comics: Rogue. From an eyeball it looks like it might be big enough, but the page she came from, X-Men: '80s Members, is only at 36,000 bytes. Permission to revert the change?

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1616: Jun 17th 2022 at 2:53:53 AM

I just finished doing a bunch of crosswicking to get Rogue over 40,000 bytes. I don’t think it’s necessary in this case.

X-Men: '80s Members isn’t the only page from the X-men with shorter then 40,000 bytes. Since the X-men are incredibly popular a lot of the main cast is going to have a lot of tropes and inevitably get split off. It was already done once before.

Also I personally like creating solo pages for characters. I just think it shows that’s alot of people are interested in a character. I like watching the page grow afterwords. I don’t really understand the harm in having more pages. When sections are split by teams or team members, they are inevitably going to be short.

Edited by GateStarX on Jun 17th 2022 at 3:00:09 AM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1617: Jun 17th 2022 at 8:13:49 AM

Okay, so I have a few issues here:

I just finished doing a bunch of crosswicking to get Rogue over 40,000 bytes. I don't think it's necessary in this case.

Once again, why didn't you communicate what you were doing before you did it? If you had said "hey, I think Rogue might be big enough for her own page soon", then we could've had this discussion before you made it. Now, if it has to go (for any reason, not just right now), we have somewhere around 480 links to cleanup because of you just doing it without saying anything. Come on man, how many times do we have to ask you to communicate what you're doing before you do it?

X-Men: '80s Members isn't the only page from the X-men with shorter then 40,000 bytes. Since the X-men are incredibly popular a lot of the main cast is going to have a lot of tropes and inevitably get split off. It was already done once before.

Okay, if this isn't the only page that's too short, then we should be merging pages, not further splitting them off. This has happened on many other pages so I don't know why we're just ignoring it on this one - hell, we just had multiple page moves for the MCU because of how their pages were too small and they were folded into larger ones. Now, if merging a few of them together makes the final product long enough to justify the Rogue page's existence, then I'm cool with it staying, but just saying "nah, it's fine" isn't exactly consistent with how we are anywhere else.

Also I personally like creating solo pages for characters. I just think it shows that's alot of people are interested in a character. I like watching the page grow afterwords. I don't really understand the harm in having more pages.

I like making solo pages too, especially for characters I like - but the entire point of this thread and the rules is to ensure that when pages are created, they're created for a purpose, usually to prevent a page from getting too long. It was created because people were getting pages for themselves at like 6,000 bytes, which was an absolute nightmare to try to keep track of everything and ensure the examples were right, things were formatted, etc. Just liking to create pages isn't a reason to create one, and I think you've been on this thread long enough to know that.

When sections are split by teams or team members, they are inevitably going to be short.

Then we should be combining them in a way that keeps things long enough, simple as that. Again, just saying "nah it's fine" doesn't really make sense to me.

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1618: Jun 17th 2022 at 9:36:41 AM

Why did I need to communicate that? I don’t think that was worth a mention. It didn’t screw anything up and I followed the byte minimum for solo pages. That move wasn’t even apart of this discussion to begin with. I was working under the comicbook namespace cleanup. So it’s not under this jurisdiction to begin with. I’m still working on cleaning up the comicbook namespace issues. Since ComicBook.Rogue has way to many inbounds to cut I boosted the contents by crosswicking tropes so I could move it back to a solo page. This isn’t a character cleanup issue.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1619: Jun 17th 2022 at 9:51:08 AM

You created a character specific page and even cited this thread’s rules to explain its creation in the edit reason, because comic book namespace or not, it’s still a CSP - you even indexed it properly on CharacterSpecificPages.Comic Books, so you clearly know this. And while you did make sure the page was long enough on its own, you still didn’t make sure the page it was leaving was long enough, and now there are so many pages linking to this page that moving it back, the simplest solution, is pretty much not an option.

Like, if you’re gonna cite the CSP’s rules for page creation, then you gotta at least say something here/make sure that the home page is good enough to still be big enough after the move. I appreciate that you made sure it was big enough and I know that the original page had too many inbounds to cut, but it truly does not take much time to just say “hey, I made this page as part of the Comic Book cleanup” and avoid any kind of issue entirely.

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1620: Jun 17th 2022 at 9:57:33 AM

Well I wasn’t breaking any rules. I shouldn’t of had to mention it. It meets the requirements.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1621: Jun 17th 2022 at 10:04:38 AM

I literally just said that the page it comes from is too short and therefore it actually doesn’t.

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1622: Jun 17th 2022 at 10:07:49 AM

That’s not a character specific page though. Does literally every page have to meet 40K to become a page? Because if so a lot of pages are going to be cut. I thought this was just for singular characters.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1623: Jun 17th 2022 at 10:22:28 AM

For a CSP to be made, the page being created and the page it’s leaving both have to be at 40K once the split is done. It’s why characters like Supernatural’s Lucifer don’t have their own pages - he’s more than big enough, but the page he’s in would be too small without him.

If you genuinely didn’t know that part of the rule, then I’m genuinely sorry for going off on you so hard, but yes, there’s a requirement for the page both being created and the one it’s leaving. For now, all I have to say is this: if you’re gonna make a CSP or reformat one, please just say something first. It can avoid any miscommunications or issues entirely and we can actually discuss what to do about certain pages rather than how to fix a problem we’ve accidentally created.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 17th 2022 at 1:41:22 PM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#1624: Jun 17th 2022 at 1:04:23 PM

Okay, so I've done byte counts all on the X-Men pages to see what other kinds of problems were there. Here's my findings:

    Byte counts 

The X-Men
The Original Team (83,322) | '60s Members (46,277) | '70s Members (70,932) | '80s Members (36,107) | '90s Members (60,169) | 2000s Members (77,931) | 2010s Members (70,334) | 2020s Members (9,574)
Other Teams
Children of the Atom (5,937) | Excalibur (33,547) | Generation Hope (23,017) | Generation X (41,217) | New Mutants (95,819) | New X-Men: Academy X (101,294) | SWORD (29,778) | X-Club (11,095) | X-Corp (19,829) | X-Factor (114,858) | X-Force (55,138) | X-Statix (29,385) | X-Terminators (7,781)
Antagonists
Rogues Gallery A to I (133,542) | Rogues Gallery J to R (67,388) | Rogues Gallery S to Z (35,410) | Villainous Organizations (80,955) | Acolytes (166,469) | Arakko (56,883) | Brotherhood of Mutants (148,190) | Clan Akkaba (38,663) | Externals (46,199) | Hellfire Club (141,883) | The Hellions (21,033) | Marauders (112,655) | Mojoverse (35,080) | Morlocks (54,806) | MLF (29,993) | Orchis (24,759) | Sentinels (76,870)
Other Characters
Supporting Characters (21,852) | Mutants (50,942) | Xavier Institute (40,461) | Krakoans (38,831) | The Savage Land (68,213) | Shi'ar (112,866) | The Starjammers (15,391) | NYX (36,540) | Cable's supporting cast (38,883 + 42,867 + 73,648 = 155,398) | Deadpool's supporting cast (43,453 + 62,400 + 38,498 = 144,351) | Wolverine's supporting cast (52,600 + 48,212 + 83,846 = 184,658) | X-23's supporting cast (102,371 + 91,792 + 106,326 = 300,489)

So looking at these byte counts, I have a few recommendations:

  • I frankly don't know what to do about the 80s page. It's just under the byte requirement, but folding back Rogue into it would require a frankly insane amount of cleanup, plus Rogue is central enough to Marvel and the comics as a whole that a page for her does make sense, at least on paper. As long as we agree to keep this kind of scenario a one-time thing, frankly I think it just needs to stay.
  • Merge together the 2010s Members and 2020s Members pages to X-Men: 2010s-20s Members. If the combined page gets too long or the 2020s section gets big enough, we can split it off again, but right now the 2020s is waaaaaay too small.
  • All of the pages under the "other teams" are actually character pages for specific comics, not just specific groups, so they don't have a byte requirement and are fine where they are.
  • For antagonists, I would fold the Hellions, MLF, Mojoverse, and Orchis back into Villainous Organizations. This gets rid of the four shortest pages in the section while the VO page would then be 191,820. It'd be a big boi, but that's still about 58,000 bytes before the page gets too long. Clan Akkaba is close enough that I'm not in the mood to bother with it.
  • And finally, for Other Characters, I'd merge back the Krakoans into Supporting Characters. That gets rid of a page that's just too short and puts Supporting Characters cleanly over the 40k. I'd merge NYX and Starjammers as well, but they're also for individual comics instead of just for groups, so they don't have the byte requirement.

So in summary, combine the 2010s and 20s pages, fold back the Hellions, MLF, Mojoverse, and Orchis into Villainous Organizations, and merge Krakoans into Supporting Characters.

Any objections to any of these moves? I'm open to any other ideas cause I'm not incredibly familiar with the source material, so I could be going about this the complete wrong way.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 17th 2022 at 4:26:36 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#1625: Jun 17th 2022 at 1:20:00 PM

No issues with the above. As discussed, I'm fine with leaving Rogue as is, although discussion beforehand would be appreciated next time.


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