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Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#226: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:45:57 AM

They probably see the Taliban as their preferred choice to Isis to be honest, and if it was'nt the Taliban taking over it would probably be Isis

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#227: Aug 14th 2021 at 7:53:04 AM

Speaking of which, ISIS-K is now conducting operations to take out Taliban commanders in the field.

Perfect distraction.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#228: Aug 14th 2021 at 8:05:55 AM

The Taliban are taking over because they're killing everyone who resists. This is like the broad support of ISIS among Iraqis and Syrians. What is this nonsense?

It's the sort of stuff you probably want to look up when asking why a once-demolished militant fundamentalist movement was able to amass enough support to kill anyone who resists when facing down a national government armed and trained by the world's predominant superpower. Everything I'm describing has been common knowledge for years - even the typically hawkish Foreign Policy observed in 2018 that the Taliban was doing a surprisingly competent job of out-governing the occupation government.

The Afghan government has been putting out a lot of propaganda to present themselves as the unquestioned, legitimate good guys in this fight, and very little of it stands up to serious scrutiny. They've had less loyal, deeply embedded support than the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, which is frankly impressive given the 'steal everyone's farmland' policy of the latter.

What's precedent ever done for us?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#229: Aug 14th 2021 at 8:20:28 AM

You do realize a huge chunk of the Taliban's forces are stolen children indoctrinated into their military and people who were conscripted at gunpoint, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_conscription

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#230: Aug 14th 2021 at 8:44:37 AM

Another update regarding secret talks.

The sources mentioned the following conditions:

  • Ghani will be forced to resign.
  • Saleh will leave the country.
  • The government is working on a list of officials to be expelled from Afghanistan: Mohib, ministers, deputies and most directors and other senior officials will be on this list.
  • Six-month ceasefire in exchange for US financial support and recognition.
  • The existing system/structure for delivery of public services will be maintained.
  • The Taliban will lead an interim government under the current regime.
  • The "warlords", both fighting and political leaders, would be safe under the agreement, but will have no role in government.
  • Abdullah himself will have no official role in the interim government, but will have an active mediating role.
  • Kabul will not be captured militarily, the Taliban have agreed to this again although faith is limited.
  • The Taliban leadership will enter Kabul in a few days, may be led by Mullah Baradar or Stanekzai.
  • A Loya Jirga will be held in Kandahar, where Mullah Hibatullah may also attend.
  • The Taliban has agreed to maintain the current structure of the security forces, for a limited period.
  • The arrival of US / British troops will enable evacuations but will also provide a calming influence in Kabul to enable a transfer of power
  • China, Iran and Russia are likely to recognize the new government first.

Note that is not final. Don’t be surprised if one or both sides decide to toss it aside later on to get the advantage.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#231: Aug 14th 2021 at 8:46:24 AM

[up][up]...how is that relevant to the point being discussed?

Charles, I get the feeling that you're simply unable to accept that in fact, many of the people in Afghanistan would legit choose the Taliban over the fuckup we created.

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#232: Aug 14th 2021 at 8:47:50 AM

I dunno. I’ve seen stuff on TOLO with the refugees being interviewed on what the Taliban are doing and they’re not pleasant.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#233: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:01:29 AM

> The Taliban leadership will enter Kabul in a few days, may be led by Mullah Baradar or Stanekzai.

Talbian leadership you say,in Kabul you say

somewhere someone is thinking "what a perfect opptunity to ambush them"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#234: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:03:43 AM

[up][up][up] Effectively it's hell either way.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#235: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:09:56 AM

Khost Protection Force is deployed to help the 203rd Corps under siege at Paktia.

I think they’re already too late.

Edited by Ominae on Aug 14th 2021 at 9:18:27 AM

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#236: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:17:12 AM

Oh, those guys that the CIA trained to carry out kill-or-capture operations and then went on to massacre entire families on nighttime no-knock raids? That Khost Protection Force?

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Aug 14th 2021 at 9:22:58 AM

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#237: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:18:59 AM

Yep. Some Afghan analysts saw photos of them loaded up. Saw them too.

Want to see the photos?

Was wondering why they were quiet for a while.

Edited by Ominae on Aug 14th 2021 at 9:23:46 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#238: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:21:40 AM

[up][up]And we wonder why the people of Afghanistan seem to be okaying the Taliban takeover....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#239: Aug 14th 2021 at 9:29:53 AM

Conscription is another story where you need to seriously ask yourself how and why the Taliban is getting away with it. The history of conscription in Afghanistan is a history of miserable failure (document page 23 onwards). The Afghan monarchy tried it, the Soviets tried it, and the early Taliban tried it (during a failed campaign to conquer the north after the successful volunteer insurgency that brought them to power), and every time it was a byword for mutiny, desertion, sedition, and open rebellion that led to consistent defeats against volunteer armies.

Being able to successfully and reliably implement mass conscription while retaining a decisive morale and organisational advantage over a national volunteer army is a feat unprecedented in Afghan history, and an extraordinary display of power and authority by the modern Taliban. Nobody has ever been able to rock up to villages, say 'you owe us your service' and get away with it without major resistance in Afghanistan before.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#240: Aug 14th 2021 at 10:09:00 AM

Mazar-I-Sharif has fallen to the Taliban, and Dostum has apparently fled the country. Given that he was the most powerful and notorious of the government-aligned warlords, that's absolutely huge news. The Taliban even released pictures of one of their soldiers dressing up in Dostum's abandoned uniform, to drive the point home.

Edited by Iaculus on Aug 14th 2021 at 5:12:53 PM

What's precedent ever done for us?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#241: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:08:06 AM

Charles, I get the feeling that you're simply unable to accept that in fact, many of the people in Afghanistan would legit choose the Taliban over the fuckup we created.

In the context that I believe it's dangerous propaganda meant to reassure America leaving is the right thing to do and not a abridgment of duties as well as abetting crimes against humanity, yes.

It's gross the way so many people want to think this is the lesser evil. If they're going to say they support withdrawl, they need to say upfront, "It's because their lives don't mean anything to the money saved and American lives lost."

Because that's the only reason. It's wrong to spread the lie otherwise because so many people will believe it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 14th 2021 at 11:10:12 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#242: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:23:56 AM

The case for the American occupation saving and bettering Afghan lives is much more tenuous, though, and much more deeply rooted in self-serving propaganda. 'They'll welcome us as liberators' was a bleak, dark joke a decade ago. All evidence suggests that the ANA is folding without much of a fight for the extremely simple reason that they don't have much to fight for.

What's precedent ever done for us?
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#243: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:32:10 AM

I feel that pretty much ascribes "morale" to the reason someone is going to horribly murdered or not. Which is questionable. One can have almost no faith in the Afghan government while also believing that the US military was the only protection from a monstrous war crimes committing army.

Even if that army was a comparative handful of people and far less than needed to actually help establish peace.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 14th 2021 at 11:32:42 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#244: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:38:22 AM

Again, the US protecting people from monstrous war crimes appears to fly in the face of most of the literature on the occupation. It's frankly baffling that in 2021, someone's takeaway from the Afghan war can be 'we didn't bomb the country enough', and I would urge you to have a good, serious read of some of the links I posted - plus this one, for good measure - because you appear to be presently a long way down a long-discredited propaganda rabbithole.

What's precedent ever done for us?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#245: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:44:47 AM

Their was actually whistleblower that revealed that 90 precnrt of the victims of us drone strikes are civilians and the authorities don't care.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#246: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:47:06 AM

Again, the US protecting people from monstrous war crimes appears to fly in the face of most of the literature on the occupation. It's frankly baffling that in 2021, someone's takeaway from the Afghan war can be 'we didn't bomb the country enough', and I would urge you to have a good, serious read of some of the links I posted - plus this one, for good measure - because you appear to be presently a long way down a long-discredited propaganda rabbithole.

If you believe the Taliban's campaign of rape, murder, and slavery is better than you and I have nothing to say to one another. Nothing the United States did could remotely compare and saying otherwise is apologia for one of the most evil regimes of the Modern Era.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#247: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:48:19 AM

That and also most of the US allies being brutal Warlords in their own right, who might've been not as evil as the Taliban, but that's not saying much.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#248: Aug 14th 2021 at 11:59:56 AM

For but one example

At first he thought a goat must have been killed, but guards told him that Dostum had earlier ordered a soldier accused of stealing to be tied to the tracks of a tank that drove around until he was reduced to mincemeat

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#249: Aug 14th 2021 at 12:16:36 PM

If you believe the Taliban's campaign of rape, murder, and slavery is better than you and I have nothing to say to one another. Nothing the United States did could remotely compare and saying otherwise is apologia for one of the most evil regimes of the Modern Era.

Yeah, see, this is where it helps to read links. Rape, murder, and slavery are widespread and extensively documented under the coalition government by multiple reputable news outlets. The main difference is that US allies have more of a reputation for raping boys than girls.

What's precedent ever done for us?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#250: Aug 14th 2021 at 12:19:22 PM

So its just Kabul left now, eh? Looks like they aren't even bothering to plan any sort of comeback either, so they either flee, resist, or collaborate with the Taliban.


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