Needs Help: Queer Media

All right. I thought I'd ask because I interpreted Orbiting's post as saying some works on the Queer Media index would have to be migrated there, but I suppose that could still be done when it's in the draft stage.

Re: Not at my desktop, but we probably need to re-examine some of the criteria for Queer Media- I just don’t understand how those series, all made by queer creators, all showcase queer characters, and all are meant to showcase queer kids and appeal to a queer audience somehow wouldn’t be Queer Media…

Edited by MegaJ on Jan 9th 2022 at 7:15:34 AM

Do you want to do the crowner again?

That may need to be an option, I think intent also matters here as well as who made the media.

I vehemently oppose the identity of the authors being a factor for whether something counts, because for many authors it isn't safe for them to be out as queer and we shouldn't hold that against them.

As a recap, we agreed that Queer Media is stuff that focuses on queer issues and queer experiences as the primary subject matter. If a character in a story just happens to be queer and the story isn't primarily about that, then the story isn't focusing on queer experiences or issues.

Edited by Orbiting on Jan 9th 2022 at 7:31:02 AM

And I'm not sure how many historical works there are, but back then it definitely wasn't always safe to publicly out yourself. It also opens up a hole of examples retroactively applying if someone comes out of the closet years later.

It wouldn’t be THE deciding factor, for example Lee Daniels, television producer/writer has created several works with gay characters but none I would consider to be Queer Media. It wouldn’t be something like “this was made by a LGBT person so it goes here.” But I think it should play a part in deciding to build the index.

Edited by MegaJ on Jan 9th 2022 at 7:40:30 AM

I'd just say that it's an easy way to track down works with a high likelihood of going in the index?

Write What You Know and all...

Edited by Malady on Jan 9th 2022 at 4:48:56 AM

I don't like the "queer media only counts if written by queer authors" idea because it pressures authors to out themselves. (See: Becky Albertalli.) We can consider them being openly queer if it's relevant but it shouldn't be a qualifier.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 9th 2022 at 11:15:31 AM

I was thinking only mentioning it with authorial intent, like:

• The Backstagers is a LGBT youth series set at an all-boys private school revolving around the backstage crew of the drama club and their adventures. The cast, main and supporting, is primarily queer. The creator James Tynion IV is bisexual and created the series to showcase gay representation and portray different forms of queer masculinity.

This wouldn't be for every single entry, but gives one objective criteria. So we could do something like "this index is about works that deal queer issues and queer experiences as the primary subject matter, statements from the author (queer or not) about the work's intent are a plus."

Edited by MegaJ on Jan 9th 2022 at 12:47:41 PM

Yeah that's fair as a bonus. Definitely helps its case for the index.

It would be the different between The Backstagers and something like The Woods which Tynion also writes and the cast is primarily queer, but every interview/talk I can find, Tynion promotes the horror/teen drama aspects of it as opposed to the identity diversity.

So out-of-work stuff like creator interviews would also be used to determine what fits? There are plenty of cases where diversity is on the creator's mind but the work itself is not about it. A creator might, for example, want to make a work with a black main character for the sake of representation, but that alone won't make the work "about race".

Edited by TheMountainKing on Jan 12th 2022 at 3:59:38 PM

I was interpreting it as "a work has to be obviously be about queer issues, but author intent is a nice bonus".

In that case it should just be obvious. We don't need a citation from Coppola saying that Apocalypse Now is about war.

That was my intention, yes.

It wouldn't be for every entry, and in my example, almost every single character is a queer male. I think that and author intent would qualify it. Picking through the LGBT Representation in Media TLP, I can't think of examples within that index where the majority of the cast is queer, it's usually one-three characters with one plot revolving around their queerness.

Edited by MegaJ on Jan 13th 2022 at 4:58:30 AM

From the TLP, there are several works where all or almost all the characters are queer. Cast Full of Gay =/= Queer Media.

From the draft, these works all feature entirely or almost entirely queer casts: Bit, Climax, Ikenfell, Sister Claire, She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. None of them are about being queer.

Edited by Orbiting on Jan 13th 2022 at 5:08:03 AM

I see now- I will withdraw my point except for The Witch Boy and I do think the author's note of intent is a nice bonus.

I've got no objections to noting a statement of the author's intent as a bonus, and I might have been too stubborn about The Witch Boy as a queer allegory- if its a really clear allegory and there's Word of God that it's intended to be read as a story about being queer, then I'll concede that it should probably count.

Edited by Orbiting on Jan 14th 2022 at 7:03:40 AM

Moved more films from Sandbox.Queer Media to Queer Romance or the Representation draft. Cut Mary, Queen of Scots (2018) without moving it, as the only gay characters in that are minor ones.

Does Monster in the Closet have any queer characters? I can't find anything on the page or the wikipedia page that says anything about that.

Also, does Love, Simon fit better as Queer Romance or Queer Media?

Love Simon is Queer Romance since it's a romcom.

How's this for a rewrite for the sandbox:

• The Witch Boy: A middle grade comic series about a young boy witch struggling to fit in with his family and magic clan as only girls are born to be witches; at the heart of the story is a fantastic allegory regarding gender and gender dysphoria, the main character is a gender non-conforming non-binary boy, and several queer supporting characters, from other queer youth to a character having two fathers.

Looks good, though probably take out 'fantastic'- we're not supposed to put value judgements on the works outside of pages like YMMV. Is the main character non-binary in the text, or is it a Word of Gay situation?

'fantastic' as in fantasy. e.g. Fantastic Racism, Fantastic Comedy

Leave out the non-binary, I copied from the descriptions for Queer Media and tweaked it and forgot to take out non-binary that someone else put there.