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SeptimusHeap Christmas worms from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Sep 16th 2021 at 9:48:09 AM

Done.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Sep 16th 2021 at 12:50:11 PM

Has anyone brought the possibility of a rename? That seems like a good way to deal with the "schoolgirls who are lesbians" misuse. Especially because the redefinition changes it from being about a type of character to a type of story.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Sep 16th 2021 at 3:56:12 PM

Orbiting Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
Sep 16th 2021 at 1:12:34 PM

Voted against making the new trope Always Female, because I know I've seen stories set in all-boys boarding schools where romances between boys were treated as a thing that they would grow out of.

nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Sep 16th 2021 at 6:56:19 PM

[up]That kinda sounds more like Situational Sexuality, TBH.

Sep 16th 2021 at 8:42:39 PM

Name suggestions:

For the proposed redefinition: Coming-of-Age Queer Romance

If the school part is essential: Coming-of-Age Queer School Romance

If the female part is essential: Coming-of-Age (Queer) Schoolgirl Romance

Edited by Twiddler on Sep 16th 2021 at 8:43:02 AM

GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
themayorofsimpleton Adjusting back from Walt Disney World
Adjusting back
Sep 17th 2021 at 4:37:02 AM

Alright, I announced this thread in ATT for more votes. Wasn't particularly involved in this discussion but I felt this trope could use more votes.

The Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining sandbox, for reference for all who need it.
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Sep 17th 2021 at 6:34:52 AM

Please note that voting up rename/redefine is essentially the same as voting for disambiguating the page Schoolgirl Lesbians. A rename&redefine is a new trope page.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Sep 17th 2021 at 4:54:21 PM

That's true, but redefining without renaming almost certainly means we'll be back here before long to deal with widespread misuse, in addition to just having a trope with a confusing name.

SeptimusHeap Christmas worms from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Sep 18th 2021 at 2:00:55 AM

Aye, voted the rename and disambiguation up for exactly this reason. Keeping the name Schoolgirl Lesbians almost certainly will perpetrate misusage.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sep 19th 2021 at 1:00:45 AM

Not sure if the crowner is safe to call yet, but of the options with a positive ratio:

  • Creating a new trope is unanimously in favor with 29 yeas and no nays.
  • Redefining to this definition is overwhelmingly in favor (but not unanimous) with 19 yeas and 5 nays.
  • Renaming is probably out of the question since it has 9 yeas and 5 nays, so the majority probably isn't high enough with that one.

The other options have more nays than yeas.

When my fist clenches, crack it open before I use it and lose my cool.
SeptimusHeap Christmas worms from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Sep 19th 2021 at 1:45:41 AM

I'd be very wary of calling the crowner at this stage unless someone of the "no rename" crowd can come and justify keeping a name, Schoolgirl Lesbians, which has drawn shoehorning of "lesbians in school" for about a decade.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sep 19th 2021 at 2:07:19 AM

[up]I was already thinking that the rename option could use more votes, considering how much smaller its tally is compared to the other options with a positive ratio. That's why I didn't holler to ask whether the crowner could be called.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 19th 2021 at 4:07:39 AM

When my fist clenches, crack it open before I use it and lose my cool.
themayorofsimpleton Adjusting back from Walt Disney World
Adjusting back
Sep 19th 2021 at 5:06:14 AM

Well I just upvoted the rename option. Don't know how I missed that, but at least I've now voted.

The Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining sandbox, for reference for all who need it.
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sep 20th 2021 at 10:34:10 PM

Should we post another ATT bulletin to advertise the rename option, since it was added a bit later than the others and doesn't appear to have gotten as much attention as the other options?

I'm not concerned about the outcome of that option as much as how much smaller its vote count is compared to the other options with a positive ratio (31 for creating a new trope, 25 for redefining, and 18 for renaming).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 20th 2021 at 12:37:37 PM

When my fist clenches, crack it open before I use it and lose my cool.
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sep 24th 2021 at 6:22:21 PM

The crowner's been up for about a week, so is it safe to call? The only way I could see it getting more votes is if we posted a second ATT bulletin.

When my fist clenches, crack it open before I use it and lose my cool.
SeptimusHeap MOD Christmas worms from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Sep 25th 2021 at 12:35:59 AM

Calling crowner in favour of:

  • Renaming Schoolgirl Lesbians and redefining it to this definition about lesbian First Love romance being portrayed in certain ways.
  • Create a new trope (name TBD) about queer relationships being viewed as a temporary phase one goes through in puberty/school.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Sep 25th 2021 at 8:54:40 AM

Since we're essentially cutting Schoolgirl Lesbians and creating two new tropes, would it be best to just start dewicking and bring the new tropes to TLP?

SeptimusHeap Christmas worms from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Sep 25th 2021 at 9:15:23 AM

Let's pen up definitions for both, first.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Sep 25th 2021 at 6:15:34 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Sep 30th 2021 at 7:24:35 PM

So, anybody up for doing write-ups?

Oct 4th 2021 at 12:35:16 PM

Bumping again to ask if anyone (particularly the people who proposed the new definitions, wants to do a write-up. Or has any name ideas.

Oct 28th 2021 at 10:41:21 PM

Definition 1 (Queer Phase) This needs to be expanded i dont know as much about this one


An older (but by no means dead) trope in which a same-sex romance among young characters is portrayed as "just a phase", which will be set aside later for more serious heterosexual relationships. This is more common with female characters then males for several reasons.

Compare:

  • Experimented in College- a similar concept, in which a heterosexual character experimented with the same gender but did not take those relationships seriously.
  • Romantic Two-Girl Friendship- they're not in a sexual or physically intimate relationship, but they are emotionally intimate and follow many of the same tropes, again with the expectation that this will be replaced by "real" (heterosexual) romance when they grow up


Definition 2 (Cute School Gay Romance)

side note- should i mention that this could also be a side story in another story? thoughts on that? i see this exact thing lots of times without a requirement that it be the main characters —- A collection of traits which form a specific type of queer Coming of Age romance story.

This is a Coming of Age romance with an element of self discovery. Two adorable schoolgirls- (or less commonly, schoolboys) have an adorable romance arc. The romance itself is portrayed pretty innocently, more cute than sexual, even if they do have sex. Expect lots of cute blushes and hand holding.

Generally the relationship is the first or one of the first they've had- almost always the first gay relationship. Often one or both is the Closet Key for the other.

The focus is on the romance, not the identity- the characters might experience some angst over being in a same-sex relationship, but will rarely face serious discrimination, homophobia or stereotyping — the relationship will be accepted by everyone important, and be positive overall.

The characters will both generally be Lipstick Lesbians or Straight Gay- neither character is aggressively butch or stereotypical, although one might be a tomboy.

Edited by Tremmor19 on Nov 2nd 2021 at 5:50:28 AM

SeptimusHeap Christmas worms from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Oct 29th 2021 at 3:06:02 AM

The first is a bit sparse, but they look passable.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oct 29th 2021 at 6:03:42 AM

^ yea- I haven't seen that one as much (in fact I can't think of any examples I'm familiar with) so I had a harder time writing out the description. If anyone is more familiar with it and could add another paragraph or so that would probably help

Acebrock from So-Cal Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Oct 31st 2021 at 10:35:41 PM

So, on the TLP draft, do we have a name for it? If we get a name and a bit more description I'll go ahead and put it through TLP.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

AlternativeTitles: SchoolgirlLesbians
1st Nov '21 11:17:18 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

Total posts: 77
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