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Derivative Works/ Namespace (formerly On Fairytale Franchise Pages)

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A project thread for the new Derivative Works/ namespace. The sandbox for the project is here.

The discussion agreed that adaptations of public domain works are not part of that work's "franchise", and their Franchise/ pages have to be reformatted and moved to the new namespace — DerivativeWorks/.

The current progress is handled at Sandbox.Derivative Works Namespace. Do not move pages to DerivativeWorks/ until the corresponding DerivativeWorks/ page draft is approved and stick to one work at a time.


     Original opening 
I'm referring to pages such as Franchise.Cinderella, Franchise.Snow White, and Franchise.Peter Pan. Rather than being proper franchise pages that actually follow the rules of the namespace, these pages are being used as indices for adaptations, which I think is misuse.

For one thing, these simply aren't franchises. Fairytales are pretty much public domain. Anyone can make a story about these characters. It's not a franchise if it's just unrelated creators making unrelated adaptations. Second, I think these would function much better as normal indices or disambig pages. People who want to find a specific Snow White story would probably not expect to find it by clicking on the franchise button.

But what do you think?

I initially brought this up here (in terms of the Cinderella one), but the discussion died almost immediately after. I figured that instead of keep bumping that thread, I'd make a new one here.

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 14th 2022 at 12:42:47 PM

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#326: Oct 27th 2023 at 7:19:28 PM

Does anyone feel like Adaptation Overdosed would be a good place to crosswick the Derivative Works/ pages?

Or should that be reserved to just DerivativeWorks.Home Page?

Edit: Which btw, I finally made.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 27th 2023 at 10:44:33 PM

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#328: Oct 27th 2023 at 11:52:15 PM

[up] Umm both? I get the first would be bad. But I'm not sure where else to index the pages.

Edit: [down] Sorry misread.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 28th 2023 at 7:58:18 PM

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#330: Oct 29th 2023 at 3:10:32 AM

Currently doing the one for Hansel and Gretel. I think it looks fine currently. I think we're good to create it.

Edit: Made it

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 29th 2023 at 7:33:16 PM

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#331: Oct 29th 2023 at 6:13:32 AM

I would suggest adding the original there, like at the top or linked in the description above

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#333: Oct 29th 2023 at 6:45:30 AM

Amazing work

Is there an adaptation minimum needed for it to count as worthy of a derivative works page

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#334: Oct 29th 2023 at 6:49:57 AM

[up] Much like the Franchise/ requires at least 3 work pages in 3 different namespaces, I believe Derivative Works/ can have maybe 3 adaptations/works based on (it can be of the same namespace) on this site to count as enough criteria to make a Derivative Works/ page.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 29th 2023 at 9:51:07 PM

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#335: Oct 29th 2023 at 6:52:00 AM

Seems good to me

Are web based media (like a certain mythos based around a slender being) allowed, considering how they're certainly different from hundreds year old stories or thousands year old myths

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#336: Oct 29th 2023 at 8:31:12 PM

[up] I'm not sure how to deal with Slender yet, so I'll wait for others' opinions.

But anyways, I'm doing the DW page for Dracula next.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#337: Oct 29th 2023 at 8:53:52 PM

Question, but what should I do with examples like these in trope lists? (from AB Negative)

  • Franchise.Dracula:
    • Dracula, thanks to Science Marches On. When the book was written, the concept of blood transfusions was radical, cutting-edge science and the possibility of an allergic reaction to someone else's blood wasn't known. Thus, Lucy can get transfusions from four different men without anyone worrying about blood type compatibility. Since she's in the process of becoming a vampire, blood types may be irrelevant to her in a very easy retcon. Another easy Fan Wank is to claim that Lucy is AB+ (one of the rarest types), the "universal recipient."
    • Fred Saberhagen's Perspective Flip The Dracula Tape makes use of this; while his Dracula did drink from Lucy, it was the blood transfusion that was killing her.
    • Also theorized in Anno Dracula.
    • One of the annotations in The Dracula Dossier (specifically in Dracula Unredacted) suggests that the first stage of vampiric transformation changes the proto-vamp's blood type to AB+ (universal recipient), meaning Lucy could have survived those transfusions if they'd been able to keep Dracula away from her.

Should I replace the Franchise link with DerivativeWorks.Dracula? Or, because it has the original work listed, it doesn't count? Or should I just seperate the entries?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#338: Oct 29th 2023 at 8:54:45 PM

Since it's not a franchise to begin with, they probably shouldn't be grouped together in trope lists.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
BlackFaithStar [Hiatus til March] from 🇲🇾 (UTC plus 8) (Less Newbie) Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#341: Oct 31st 2023 at 7:43:27 AM

What shall be done with Disney adaptations

Like the original ones i am pretty sure should be included (like say The Jungle Book) but what if Disney made media featuring those characters like tie-in video games, or them appearing in crossover material, do we count those for the derivative works page too of nah

(i know Disney might not be the only one who could give such complications, but I is the most likely)

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#342: Oct 31st 2023 at 8:56:02 AM

I don't think so. At that part it's a derivative in Disney's own franchise.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016
#344: Nov 2nd 2023 at 6:39:18 PM

Franchise.Frankenstein looks like another one that should be moved to this namespace.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#345: Nov 2nd 2023 at 8:49:35 PM

[up] Agreed. Though I'm doing Franchise.The Three Musketeers first.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Nov 2nd 2023 at 11:49:59 PM

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#346: Nov 3rd 2023 at 4:52:57 AM

OK, so The Three Musketeers isn't a franchise, but if a an example talks about something that happens in several adaptations, can I still keep the bullet tree?

Like from The Cavalier Years

Seems like it makes sense to keep it. It's not like it's referring to itself as a franchise anyway.

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#347: Nov 3rd 2023 at 5:51:05 AM

If a trope has appeared in several derivative works i am ok with it being in the DW page, sorta like franchise pages

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#349: Nov 3rd 2023 at 9:55:03 AM

Hmm, looking at my OP, Franchise.Snow White and Franchise.Peter Pan still need to be moved. The Snow White one already seems ready to go for the most part.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#350: Nov 3rd 2023 at 9:57:16 AM

Ok so the original one can already be accessed from the page but, i still think the original should go at the top

Otherwise yeah

Wiki Talk: Choosing names
28th Sep '22 7:01:51 AM

Crown Description:

The previous crowner agreed to create a new namespace for subpages of original works that have fallen into the public domain due to misuse from the Multimedia franchise namespace and the Fan Works namespace. The following options had the most support during discussion.

Total posts: 548
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