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Derivative Works/ Namespace (formerly On Fairytale Franchise Pages)

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A project thread for the new Derivative Works/ namespace. The sandbox for the project is here.

The discussion agreed that adaptations of public domain works are not part of that work's "franchise", and their Franchise/ pages have to be reformatted and moved to the new namespace — DerivativeWorks/.

The current progress is handled at Sandbox.Derivative Works Namespace. Do not move pages to DerivativeWorks/ until the corresponding DerivativeWorks/ page draft is approved and stick to one work at a time.


     Original opening 
I'm referring to pages such as Franchise.Cinderella, Franchise.Snow White, and Franchise.Peter Pan. Rather than being proper franchise pages that actually follow the rules of the namespace, these pages are being used as indices for adaptations, which I think is misuse.

For one thing, these simply aren't franchises. Fairytales are pretty much public domain. Anyone can make a story about these characters. It's not a franchise if it's just unrelated creators making unrelated adaptations. Second, I think these would function much better as normal indices or disambig pages. People who want to find a specific Snow White story would probably not expect to find it by clicking on the franchise button.

But what do you think?

I initially brought this up here (in terms of the Cinderella one), but the discussion died almost immediately after. I figured that instead of keep bumping that thread, I'd make a new one here.

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 14th 2022 at 12:42:47 PM

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#301: Oct 24th 2023 at 6:54:45 AM

Fair enough, i suppose some other popular internet horror stuff may or may not be able to also have that, assuming the namespace minimum like franchise is 3

I am namely thinking about Jeff the Killer, Sonic.exe and the Backrooms

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#302: Oct 24th 2023 at 6:54:57 AM

[up][up] Though apparently, the Slender Man isn't in the public domain. So... what do we do here?

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 24th 2023 at 9:55:07 PM

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#303: Oct 24th 2023 at 6:57:51 AM

Neither are any of my examples, i don't think

Maybe the definition could get tweaked a little bit

Or we take the original post, or page, and use the fan works subpage or make one and use it as a sort of index until they enter the public domain

Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#305: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:11:40 AM

[up] Oh yeah, it is. I guess I just let the header and much of the general discussion about public domain works get the better of me.

Derivative Works/ could maybe work for now.

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#306: Oct 24th 2023 at 7:27:54 AM

Awesome

Was a minimum established

Of like how many works (intial one + sequels + adaptations) are needed before there can be a page for that

Is it like franchise and it needs to be adapted to at least 3 mediums or something

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#307: Oct 25th 2023 at 3:16:23 AM

OK, so I'm working on Alice in the "progress" section.

Does it look good? Am I missing anything?

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#308: Oct 25th 2023 at 5:09:34 AM

Also two questions before I move,

Should the page be DerivativeWorks.Alices Adventures In Wonderland Or DerivativeWorks.Alice In Wonderland?

My guess is the former, but what do you think?

Also should the "adaptations with their own pages" section on Literature.Alices Adventures In Wonderland be removed?

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 25th 2023 at 8:09:42 PM

JDMA12 He/Him from the 31st Century (Troper in training)
He/Him
#309: Oct 25th 2023 at 9:09:43 AM

[up] I'd say Alices Adventures In Wonderland yeah, as that's work they're derivating from.

And merge the adaptation list onto Derivate Works I'd say.

Re: Where to index the namespace. Derivative Works is currently a index for tropes related to Adaptations, Sequels, Spin-offs and all, y'know, what Derivative Works are. Dumping an index of the namespace there might be too much of a change of scope, even if we keep the tropes, and if we do, it's also a length issue. We could move the current content to Derivate Works Tropes and put the index in the main page if we want to, but that'd need TRS which... would take a while. For now, I'd say we're better off creating (trough TLP) a new page to index. Idk about it's name though.

[down] That could work

Edited by JDMA12 on Oct 25th 2023 at 4:39:35 PM

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#310: Oct 25th 2023 at 9:47:25 AM

Previously, I suggested creating DerivativeWorks.Home Page for indexing DerivativeWorks/ pages.

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#311: Oct 25th 2023 at 9:52:30 AM

I like that idea, maybe we should TLP it, though idk if we can launch a sub wiki

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#312: Oct 25th 2023 at 4:02:16 PM

[up][up] Alright, DerivativeWorks.Alices Adventures In Wonderland it is.

Btw, should the categories be sorted in alphabetical order? Or should Literature and Film Adaptations go at the top?

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#313: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:01:07 PM

Alright, I'm seeing no objections with the Alice DW draft, so I'm making the page.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#314: Oct 25th 2023 at 6:28:16 PM

Alright, page made.


Should Franchise.Alices Adventures In Wonderland be cut? It has low inbounds and wicks.

The Disney franchise is also just called Alice in Wonderland and never Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.

Also, how should we handle the Trope Overdosed Franchises page wicking to it?

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#315: Oct 26th 2023 at 4:16:10 AM

Probably

Also i think that folders should go in alphabetical order, maybe bar the original entry, who i think should be the first work page seen (assuming it has one)

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#316: Oct 26th 2023 at 5:48:41 PM

On DerivativeWorks.Alices Adventures In Wonderland, moved the original works out of the indexing to their own section up top. A work cannot be a derivative work of itself; however, I can see a case for including them on the page for convenience.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#317: Oct 26th 2023 at 5:56:33 PM

[up][up] I see, so I've put it on the cutlist.

Also, alphabetically ordered the categories for DerivativeWorks.Alices Adventures In Wonderland.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 27th 2023 at 12:06:57 AM

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#318: Oct 27th 2023 at 4:27:59 AM

[up](x8) I'm good with TLP-ing a DerivativeWorks.Home Page for the indexes.

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#319: Oct 27th 2023 at 4:37:55 AM

Awesome sauce, i hope it gets accepted

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#320: Oct 27th 2023 at 5:18:29 AM

I'm planning on moving the adaptation list from A Christmas Carol next, but related to that.

Should I move the "A Christmas Carol's adaptations provide examples of:" trope list section to DerivativeWorks.A Christmas Carol as well?

Adembergz Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Not war
#321: Oct 27th 2023 at 6:52:48 AM

Yeah, saw franchise pages do that too

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#322: Oct 27th 2023 at 6:59:21 AM

I don't think we need to TLP the main page here. It's not in Main/ and it's just an index for a namespace we're already creating.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
LordGro (Old as dirt)
#324: Oct 27th 2023 at 8:18:37 AM

Is it intentional that DerivativeWorks.Alices Adventures In Wonderland does not mention the Disney movie in its list of adaptations?

To be clear, I am aware that it's mentioned in the header and there's a separate page for the Disney franchise, but it is an adaptation, and a pretty well-known one at that. I think a list of adaptations of the Carroll book should also contain the Disney movie, even if we have Franchise.Alice In Wonderland separate from that.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#325: Oct 27th 2023 at 3:31:47 PM

[up] I think it's just because Disney's is its own franchise. I might mention the 1951 animated film more in the header though.

What to do with Main.A Christmas Carol?

Edit: Nevermind, I just moved the entries to the DerivativeWorks/ page.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 27th 2023 at 10:18:38 PM

Wiki Talk: Choosing names
28th Sep '22 7:01:51 AM

Crown Description:

The previous crowner agreed to create a new namespace for subpages of original works that have fallen into the public domain due to misuse from the Multimedia franchise namespace and the Fan Works namespace. The following options had the most support during discussion.

Total posts: 548
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