A project thread for the new Derivative Works/ namespace. The sandbox for the project is here.
The discussion agreed that adaptations of public domain works are not part of that work's "franchise", and their Franchise/ pages have to be reformatted and moved to the new namespace — DerivativeWorks/.
The current progress is handled at Sandbox.Derivative Works Namespace. Do not move pages to DerivativeWorks/ until the corresponding DerivativeWorks/ page draft is approved and stick to one work at a time.
For one thing, these simply aren't franchises. Fairytales are pretty much public domain. Anyone can make a story about these characters. It's not a franchise if it's just unrelated creators making unrelated adaptations. Second, I think these would function much better as normal indices or disambig pages. People who want to find a specific Snow White story would probably not expect to find it by clicking on the franchise button.
But what do you think?
I initially brought this up here
(in terms of the Cinderella one), but the discussion died almost immediately after. I figured that instead of keep bumping that thread, I'd make a new one here.
Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 14th 2022 at 12:42:47 PM
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Thanks for the links. I've added a bit more to the Bryony entry, as well as expanding the description on the work page itself.
Also expanded on a few entries that I was able to get more context for from the work pages. Should we be trimming the partials back to a bare link, or okay with leaving them as-is? If anyone knows any of the specific works and wants to fill in, that's fine too.
What issues still remain with "Beauty and the Beast"?
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576Well, there's the question right above you for a start
I'm OK with leaving them as-is. Not everything can be completely perfect at launch. Anyone who wants to add info can do it later.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI've done add a bit more to the writeups that I could get into. I think we've gotten enough thread feedback to call "Okay with not all writeups being full-detail". I don't think that any of the shorter ones are truly so zero-content as to merit trimming them back to a bare Wiki Word, except perhaps the 2014 French film.
I'd appreciate if someone was willing to do a quick grammar pass, as I can sometimes get too close to stuff I've written. Otherwise, I think that it's ready to go. I'll give it a few hours for feedback, and then make the move.
I'm at the point where I now want to launch this as-is, go through the remaining to-do list, then think what to do with them later, or at least do something.
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupLost in Imitation calls Beauty and the Beast (2014) a remake of Beauty and the Beast (1946), but I haven't found any other page that reports that.
For 2014, we've got:
- Stolen Rose: Felony Misdemeanor: Well, it's not like Belle's father could have known the roses were so precious, and there was nothing indicating that they were forbidden — or that there was anybody left to punish him for it. But they're extremely precious to the Beast, who demands his life in exchange for a single stolen rose.
- Daughter for Father: Gilded Cage: After Belle gives herself to the Beast in exchange for her father's life, she is housed in a luxurious statesroom, is waited on by the castle's servants, wears extravagant outfits, and eats rich food to her heart's content, but is not allowed to leave, and every night at dinner Beast asks for her hand in marriage.
Curse-breaking is covered by anything on the page that mentions "Curse"...
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576I mean, those examples are basically just how the original story goes... Or at least I've seen a bazillion adaptations with those exact beats. So it doesn't give us much to work with and again I'm OK with not going all out on adding context to works we don't know anything about.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallWell, 2014 is just "A French film directed by Christophe Gans."
If we're fine with Panna a netvor's:
Then we could say "Literally Beauty and the Beast: Beast-with-a-more-magic-past French Adaptation"
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576The sandbox is launched at DerivativeWorks.Beauty And The Beast, so which work to handle next?
Also these need an index page of some kind.
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupI think Cinderella would be pretty easy, I'm familiar with a few of the works and a lot of them have descriptions on Cinderella Plot.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallMal and Sync: I did end up expanding Panna a netvor a bit, based on stuff on the work page. I didn't expand Beauty and the Beast (2014), as it seems to be a very bog-standard retelling from the work page, and I couldn't find anything that made it stand out. Certainly wouldn't call it "More magical" than normal with the information I've got here.
Yes, the page is live, and I've cleared the sandbox. I also cleaned the Franchise/ page, and examples from the Literature/ page. I set the page to do indexing, and put in a request over on the namespace configuration thread to have that set as the default for the namespace.
There was some talk about disassembling the Derivative Works tropes index (due to the tropes all fitting more precise indexes elsewhere) and using the mainspace location for these pages.
Remind me to fix the "film franchises" folder in Recap.Disney Animated Canon.
Is Dinosaur a Franchise, or is the Ride too divorced from the Western Animation to count?
- Yep. Whoops.
Edited by Malady on Nov 12th 2022 at 2:28:15 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576...Wrong thread?
What about Literature.Momotaro next? It's already laid out like one. Something simple to get into the groove?
What's the number needed for Sizable Adaptation count? 5? And/or go like Franchise and [some number] as the minimum if they're all in one medium, but if they spread to at least two media, they should get a Derivative Works page?
Main.Thumbelina I think is needing one? Not sure about Carrie, nor Literature.Daddy Long Legs
Edited by Malady on Nov 12th 2022 at 8:45:05 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576Do we need to set a minimum?
Carrie was under copyright till 2002, so most of the works on its page are licensed, not Derivative Works.
Daddy-Long-Legs is similar.
Thumbelina is probably a better target.
I don't see a reason to set a minimum, there just needs to be enough works to make such a page worth it.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallThis business
with Fan Works got me thinking: we need a place to index DerivativeWorks/ pages, but Derivative Works is already being used to index tropes and trivia. How about creating DerivativeWorks.Home Page under Sub Wiki to serve as the subpage index?
Crown Description:
The previous crowner agreed to create a new namespace for subpages of original works that have fallen into the public domain due to misuse from the Multimedia franchise namespace and the Fan Works namespace. The following options had the most support during discussion.

I'd see what we can draw out of these tropes:
And the page was only made
due to being split
from Creator.Ursula Vernon for some reason.
Lastly, here's a store page
, which might provide more info?
Edited by Malady on Nov 4th 2022 at 6:16:35 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576