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Misused: Unintentional Period Piece

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    Original post 
Unintentional Period Piece is a ridiculously misused trope. The trope is supposed to be for when a work is full of things that make the work firmly dated to its era, such as fashion, technology, societal attitudes, etc.

Instead, it is used for anything even remotely dated in a work, along with merely dated settings and, in some cases, intentionally dated things.

Specifically, a collaborative wick check done by myself and War Jay 77 (with some help from mightymewtron) revealed the following:

  • 29.41% of examples were correctly used
  • 43.14% of examples were used for minor things in a movie that were dated
  • 1.96% of examples were intentionally dated
  • 13.73% of examples had a dated setting, without necessarily having lots of dated things in it
  • 9.80% of examples were ZCEs, and
  • 1.96% of examples did not fit the other categories.

Totaled together, 29.41% of the examples are correctly used, and 70.59% are incorrect. And as mightymewtron pointed out in the Wick Check thread, even many of the correct examples are very snarky and complain-y.

What should be done about this trope? War Jay 77 suggested moving it to YMMV. Beyond that, I don't have many other ideas.

Wick check:

Here we will be doing a wick check for the trope Unintentional Period Piece.

Why? This trope is ridiculously misused. The trope is supposed to be for when a work is so ridiculously dated and full of culture at the time it was written, that it becomes a Period Piece despite not intending to be one. However, it instead gets used for anything that is dated in a work, as well as sometimes intentional Period Pieces. It has been suggested that this trope be moved to YMMV as well.

Current wicks checked: 51/51

Misuse percentages:

  • Correct: 29.41%
  • Minor dated things/one dated thing in it: 43.14%
  • Intentionally dated: 1.96%
  • Dated setting or subculture, but not many dated things in it: 13.73%
  • ZCEs: 9.80%
  • Other, unknown, or unsorted: 1.96%

Misuse vs. correct use percentage: 29.41% correct use, 70.59% incorrect use

    open/close all folders 

    Correct use (work is ridiculously dated despite not being a Period Piece) (15/51) 
  • Film.Mallrats: The film is pretty much dripping with 90s culture, from the outfits to the music. Even Truth Or Date, despite being a 60s/70s throwback, is indicative of what was nostalgic in the 90s. Sounds correct at least...
  • Trivia.Scary Movie (1): A big problem with Scary Movie 2, even taking into account the fact that spoof movies generally don't age too well. In addition to the film featuring a lot of spoofs of adverts and music videos from 2000—2001 (which are a lot less likely to be remembered than films from the same time period), most of the films being spoofed got horrible critical receptions and were quickly forgotten, which hurts the film quite badly these days. The second movie also contains a reference to then popular, but now mostly-forgotten game show The Weakest Link. This, and the other example from the page, both reference how the movies dated themselves by basing them off of references that faded quickly.
  • Trivia.Scary Movie (2): Scary Movie 4 suffers from this to some extent, as a result of a lot of references to pop cultural things that are now mostly forgotten or considered outdated, such as My Space and the original iPod. Fortunately, most of the films being spoofed are still well-remembered and well-regarded (with the arguable exception of The Grudge and The Village), so the film doesn't feel quite as dated overall.
  • Trivia.Sneakers: Between the Mafia missing the Cold War, Why We Are Bummed Communism Fell sentiment of field agents, dial-up Internet, flip phones, and NSA introductions, this is clearly set in early 90s. Describes a work full of dated things from The '90s that wasn't meant to be a Period Piece.
  • Trivia.The Cardinal Of The Kremlin: The plot of the novel is tied to a quite specific period of the Cold War (START, SDI, heroic Afghan freedom fighters), and it dated very quickly. Only five years later, the film adaptations of the series skipped straight over it. Sounds pretty dated.
  • Trivia.World War Z: Between its parodies of and references to various celebrities and public figures, its portrayal of the internet and "alternative" media, the manner in which The War on Terror affects the US' initial, blundering response to the Zombie Apocalypse, and even brief mentions of the Nintendo Game Cube and of Ukraine controlling Crimea, the book is decidedly rooted in the anxieties and concerns of Bush-era America. Describes a movie full of things that date it to the Turn of the Millennium.
  • Trivia.The Doom Generation: The film's pop culture references, political satire and fashions instantly place it as a mid-90s piece. Jordan and Xavier have quintessential curtains hairstyles, likewise for Amy's bob. Describes a film that is ridiculously dated due to lots of dated things in it, which is the correct use.
  • Trivia.Grand Theft Auto III (2): Several other topical references date themselves, with radio commercials alone satirizing the dot-com boom (PetsOvernight.com, which delivers exotic animals overnight), massive SUVs (the aforementioned Maibatsu Monstrosity - its advertised mileage of 3 miles per gallon is treated as a point of pride in one commercial), dating services (Fernando's New Beginnings, a dating service which lets bored husbands secretly arrange for trysts with prostitutes) and the beginnings of Reality TV (Liberty City Survivor, where 20 recently-paroled guys are equipped with heavy weapons and then dropped into the city to hunt each other down, with one commercial including a recommendation from someone who got shot by one of the contestants). There's also the adrenaline pills, which in addition to boosting your melee strength put you into Bullet Time - an obvious reminder of the days in the early- to mid-2000s where the influence of The Matrix reigned supreme. Correctly describes a work being very dated due to having multiple dated things in it.
  • Trivia.Jurassic Park 1993 (1): The first film for the most part does a good job avoiding references that would tend to date these kinds of films, but the bulky computer monitor technology and the prevalence of Thinking Machines computers grounds it to the 1990s. As does Sattler's attire. Describes a film being dated by multiple things in it.
  • Trivia.Final Destination: The cameras used and the music for the soundtrack place the movie sometime after the the 1980s, but the under-reaction to a guy saying a plane is going to explode, which turns out to be true, clearly shows the movie was made before 9/11. Describes multiple things making a work very dated.
  • FollowTheLeader.Western Animation: The long-running rivalry between The Simpsons and South Park is an interesting case study in this trope. In South Parks early days, when it generally stuck to its simple "quirky small-town America" premise, many people unfavorably compared it to The Simpsons, accusing it of substituting that show's clever writing for simple vulgarity. South Park is generally agreed to have Grown the Beard when it started drawing more humor from current events and politics, and satire became its biggest strength. Conversely, when The Simpsons came to be criticized for its increasing reliance on quickly outdated topical humor, many people accused it of trying to copy South Park. So while South Park was once derided as a less clever version of The Simpsons, The Simpsons is now often derided as a less daring South Park. Pothole correctly describes a series becoming dated due to topical things that don't age well.'
  • Trivia.Day Of The Barney Trilogy: Several things such as the lack of BJ and Riff (the third and fourth dinosaurs, respectively, introduced in the show following Baby Bop and Barney), mentions of the huge popularity of Barney himself, and other things such as trends mentioned in the fanfics firmly place the trilogy as a product of the 1990s. Correctly describes how multiple things in the Hate Fic have made it a product of its era.
  • Trivia.Mafalda: For The '60s. Most strips avoid this, but enough of them make enough references to place them in that time period; among them:
    • The hairdos and attire of female background characters.
    • Mafalda's dad having been a fan of Bing Crosby in his youth.
    • The design of some appliances that are no longer made even if some may still be in use.
      • The new TV that Mafalda's dad buys is a square box model television with dials and no remote control.
      • Every character has rotary dial land-line telephones at home.
      • Mafalda's dad owns a brand new Citroën 2CV which stopped production around The '80s.
    • Almost all the children are Beatles fans.
    • Guille has a thing for Brigitte Bardot.
    • Allusions to the US space program include remarks about Gordon Cooper, the Mariner probes and the Moon landing.
    • Constant mentions about the Cold War (The USSR-USA rivalry, Vietnam, the Berlin Wall, the Japanese economic miracle, fear of Red China, and the possibility of atomic war...) Entires correctly describe multiple things making a work very dated.
  • Trivia.She Devil: This movie is very definitely a product of its time. Late-'80s hairstyles, outfits, and attitudes. Robin Leach introduces us to Mary Fisher via an episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. At one point Mary has a satellite dish installed for Andrew, and we see two fully-grown men struggling trying to set up a huge dish in the front lawn (most, if not all, satellite dishes of today are about as big as a dinner plate and attach onto the house). We see Nicolette spending all her time on a party line from a late-'80s cell phone. Nicolette's room has a Tiffany poster and Andrew watches some WWE fight where the hair is larger than the muscles. To cap it all off, we even see a promotional poster for Tim Burton's Batman in Times Square in one scene! Entry correctly describes a work being made dated by multiple things in it.
  • Literature.Thirteen Reasons Why: Magic Floppy Disk: The tapes. Clay even has to go look for a Walkman so he can walk around when he listens. Word of God is that it's intentional, so that the book won't become too dated. By using something that is said to be outdated, it won't seem like an Unintentional Period Piece. Bolded for emphasis. Intentionally (and correctly) used.

    Work contains one thing or minor amounts of things that are dated (22/51) 
  • Trivia.Angus Og: With its many mentions of contemporary events and cameos by UK celebs and politicians, it is very much tied to its time.
  • Trivia.Anarchist Cookbook: As mentioned above, the mentions of phone phreaking make it obvious that it was written in The '70s.
  • Trivia.Doctor Who S 1 E 1 An Unearthly Child: One of the reasons why Susan is considered unusual is because she doesn't know how pre-decimal currency works, and that she thought the UK was on the decimal system. At the time this is perfectly reasonable, but given the UK really did switch to decimilised currency in 1971, nowadays it's perfectly reasonable for a 15-year-old to not understand it. Describes only one thing that is dated.
  • Trivia.I Carly: The episode "iMeet Fred". Most kids today would not even know who Fred is and will probably assume that it's just a Show Within a Show created specifically for iCarly. Describes an episode being dated only because it contains a no longer popular online celebrity.
  • Trivia.Nickmas: The first Frosty the Snowman parody short uses Libby's original hairstyle even when she's a senior. Describes only one thing that is dated in a work.
  • Trivia.The Simpsons S 11 E 19 Kill The Alligator And Run (1): This episode aired in April of 2000; the Montana Militia largely disbanded around this time, after reaching its peak membership during the previous year. Describes only one thing that is dated in the episode.
  • Trivia.The Raccoons: At the end of "The Prism of Zenda!", Cyril can be seen with a cigar in his mouth... in prison. Smoking has been banned in Canadian prisons since 2008. Pothole bolded for emphasis. Pothole references only one thing dated in a work.
  • Trivia.Trading Places (1): At the time the film was made, using misappropriated or "insider" information to invest in commodities (as opposed to the stock and bond market) was not a crime, although a government courier could still get in trouble for unauthorized release of government information like the crop report in the film. The law that changed this, Section 136 of the Wall Street Transparency and Accountability Act, note  enacted in 2010, is informally known as the "Eddie Murphy Rule." The chairman of the Commodities Futures Trading Commission specifically referred to the film when first publicly proposing the rule change. Describes one thing in a movie that is dated.
  • Trivia.Trading Places (2): A lot of what goes down at the stock market in this movie is also not possible now thanks to computers — pit trading and open outcry are no longer widely used, for example. Describes only one thing in a movie that is dated.
  • Trivia.Say Anything (1): The Signature Scene of Lloyd holding a boombox over his head might not have the same impact today if he were holding an iPod instead. Then again, a 21st-century Lloyd would be holding up some kind of iPod player with a picture of a boombox on it, as joked by Brie Larson. Describes only one dated thing in a work.
  • Trivia.Say Anything (2): The people filming the graduation ceremony using actual film cameras. Today they'd just be holding up their phones. Describes only one dated thing in a work.
  • Trivia.Kidsongs (1): "A Day with the Animals" has a killer whale in Marineland of the Pacific (which closed a year after it was filmed) performing tricks in "I Love the Water World". Come The New '10s, the controversy over raising orcas in captivity forced water parks to stop doing such shows, most notably Sea World in 2016. Describes one dated thing in a song.
  • Trivia.The Cat In The Hat: In The Cat in the Hat Comes Back, the protagonist's father owns a pair of shoes that cost $10. Pricey in 1958 but these days you'd wonder why he'd have such cheap footwear.
  • Trivia.Wishbone: If the episode "A Dogged Expose" took place today, Damont certainly wouldn't be distributing those embarrassing photos on flyers. He'd be posting them on social media.
  • Trivia.ET The Extra Terrestrial (2): On the other hand, jock older brother Michael's introduction has him playing Dungeons & Dragons without hinting at him having any geeky or creative Hidden Depths, which firmly grounds the film in the early 80s (the height of D&D's popularity as a fad) for fans of the film who are role-players. Describes one thing that is dated in the film.
  • Trivia.Grand Theft Auto III (1): Claude uses a pager (and in some cases, a pay phone box) rather than a cell phone to communicate. On Chatterbox, a Moral Guardians group leader against cell phones calls in to protest against them, but also talk about how difficult it is to communicate without them. Both of these elements have been dated past The New '10s with many more people owning cell phones, and even more so by the fact almost every later game in the "GTAIII era" of the series - despite being intentional period pieces dated even earlier than GTAIII - uses cell phones rather than pagers. Describes one dated thing in the game.
  • Trivia.Grand Theft Auto III (4): The character of Donald Love is quite clearly based on the then-current pop-culture depiction of Donald Trump, being a ruthless businessman owning a large skyscraper who expresses a desire to instigate a gang war for property development. Describes one dated thing in the game.
  • Trivia.Jurassic Park 1993 (2): This applies to the dinosaurs as well, thanks to Science Marches On. In 1993 they were the most up-to-date depiction of dinosaurs in film. Now they're nearly as dated as the "old" dinosaurs they once displaced. Describes one dated thing in the movie.
  • Trivia.Henry Stickmin Series: A lot of older memes are referenced in earlier games that remain unchanged in the Collection version, most notably the Shoop-da-Woop Running Gag. References some things that are dated in the series, without implying that they make the whole game dated.
  • Trivia.Another Cinderella Story: Mary's The Girl Who Fits This Slipper subplot involves her Zune music player, which was discontinued in 2011 (a little over half a decade after the movie's release). The description for the film for some cable and streaming services even misidentifies it as an iPod. Describes one dated thing in a work.
  • Recap.The Simpsons S 3 E 14 Lisa The Greek: Take That!: The episode takes jabs at the Super Bowl broadcasts of the 1980s, which consisted on rather bland family-friendly half-time shows built around a theme while the game would be followed by the premiere of a new TV show that would usually be cancelled after one season (The A-Team, which premiered after S.B. XVII being one of the few exceptions). This doubles with Unintentional Period Piece for both practices were abandoned a few years later: The half-time show would feature pop stars beginning in the following year (something in which Fox's In Living Color! special played an important part), and after NBC aired an special hour-long episode of Friends after Super Bowl 30, most post-game shows would be SB-themed episodes of already-established programs. Pothole describes two dated things in an episode, rather than the episode itself being very dated.
  • Trivia.Jack And The Beanstalk 1974: The music is reminiscent of songs from the 70's when it was made, especially the music the salesman plays on his lute, and in the original Japanese version near the end of the "Tulip" song he does an Elvis Presley impression. There's also a bit of Values Dissonance when Jack's mother spanks him onscreen. Describes two things that are dated in a work, without saying that they make the work itself dated.

    Intentional Period Piece or something intentionally dated (1/51) 
  • Trivia.Nineteen Ninety Something: Inverted, seeing as how the comic takes place in The '90s but was created in the mid-to-late 2010s. Regardless, the comic contains so many outdated 90s references that one either has to have lived in the 90s or have a vast knowledge of the decade to understand any of it. Intentional Period Piece.

    Work is heavily influenced by a specific dated subculture or setting, without being full of dated things per se (7/51) 
  • Trivia.Tragedy Girls: Much of the film's humor is rooted in satirizing the True Crime fandom of the 2010s, portraying it as obsessed with murderers in a manner that recalls the real-life "Columbiner" communities of that era. After the Parkland shooting and the March for Our Lives in 2018, a year after this film came out, the online true crime community took a very notable shift away from that sort of attitude, and nowadays, the idolization of serial killers and spree killers of the sort that Sadie and McKayla engage in is regarded as tasteless, at least in the more mainstream communities. Describes a film's premise being heavily influenced by a once-relevant subculture, without the film actually being filled with dated things.
  • Trivia.The Simpsons S 11 E 19 Kill The Alligator And Run (2): The episode also features the party-hard youth culture of the 90s and 2000s at its peak, with Kid Rock appearing at an MTV show broadcast from the beach (featuring a joke about the age of the channel's presenters), with Rock's particular brand of Rap Rock being passe by the time the episode aired, while this zeitgeist would be greatly affected by 9/11. Kid Rock's hype man Joe C. also appears alongside him in this episode, seven months before he died from complications related to dwarfism. Describes an overarching culture that affects the episode's timeliness, without the episode itself being actually necessarily filled with dated things.
  • Trivia.Kidsongs (2): "A Day at the Circus" aged even worse. In the years since the video was first released, the traditional American-style traveling circus has diminished in popularity with the biggest example being the closing of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus in 2017. Not helping is the animal acts, especially those with elephants, which have come under much scrutiny by animal rights groups. Describes a song being dated because it is set in a circus, which are no longer as relevant as they once were.
  • Trivia.Goku Midnight Eye: The series is exceedingly 80s, with a cyberpunk future where fashion has remained the same and the USSR is still around. Sounds like it uses some 80s tropes and history, but doesn't sound too heavily dated.
  • Trivia.Bicycle Thieves: The story very much reflects the conditions in Italy after World War II. Unemployment and crime were rampant, the police generally weren't very competent, and, as shown in a few scenes, communism had a large following in the country. And Rita Hayworth (featured on the posters Antonio is supposed to hang) was at the peak of her international popularity. Entry describes an era's culture making a movie dated, rather than the movie being dated due to being full of things from its era.
  • Trivia.Grand Theft Auto III (3): Liberty City's portrayal as The Big Rotten Apple, a view that started to fade soon after 9/11 (which happened a month before the game's release) and The War on Terror. Even though the game was held back a month to attempt to remove content that would look offensive after 9/11, very little could actually be done with the small amount of time they had (the police cars were changed to a Los Angeles-inspired color scheme rather than emulating the NYPD's then-current and distinctive blue on white, airplanes couldn't be blown up, and the only plane in the game had its wings clipped to make it nearly impossible to fly), dating it to the immediate pre-9/11 period of 2000 to, at latest, August 2001. Describes a game being dated due to a dated setting.
  • Film.Mission To Moscow: A few years after its release, the Cold War arrived and Mission to Moscow became an Old Shame for all involved. Warner Bros. argued that the film had been an "expedient lie" to help the war effort along and that it had never been meant for posterity. The House Un-American Activities Committee wasn't buying it, so Warner Bros. threw screenwriter Howard Koch to the wolves. Even though he had written the film under contract and had never belonged to the Communist Party, Koch was subsequently put on The Hollywood Blacklist. Since the Red Scare, the movie has largely faded into obscurity, and it's now remembered as one of the all-time Unintentional Period Pieces. Sometimes it's shown, not without controversy, on Turner Classic Movies. Pothole describes a film dated by its setting rather than by having a lot of dated things in it.

    ZCEs (5/51) 

    Other, unknown, or unsorted (1/51) 
  • Trivia.ET The Extra Terrestrial (1): Averted nicely unlike a lot of 80s movies. You can tell it was filmed in the 1980s due to the cars, the TV, and the family owning an Atari 2600, but it doesn't stick out like other examples. Many of the pop culture references they make like Star Wars or The Twilight Zone (1959) are still known by today's audiences. Entry literally says that it does not fit the trope.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 4th 2023 at 11:08:49 AM

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#76: Jun 4th 2021 at 12:23:19 PM

I think there might be value in a trope for a work that depicts one time period through the lens of another
This is Present-Day Past.
[up]This is my view as well.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Jokubas Since: Jan, 2010
#77: Jun 4th 2021 at 2:27:30 PM

This is one of those pages where I like the idea, but the more I see it used the more I have to admit it seems pretty broken.

In theory, I'd expect examples to be like: "This work is supposed to be set in a timeless present/nebulous now, but when you take the fashion, slang, and cultural norms all together, it comes off as a time capsule of the decade it was made."

Instead, whenever I run into it, the examples end up being more like: "Wow, this movie features a shoe store in the background that closed on June 5th, 2020, anyone can instantly tell that this movie had to have been filmed anywhere between 1890, when that shoe store first opened, and 2020, what a pathetic example of dating yourself."

There's been a lot of ideas already on this thread so I'm probably going to miss something, but some miscellaneous thoughts on things:

  • I'm getting pretty confused at what this is myself. I do think it was supposed to be Trivia, not YMMV. Using my expected example as an example, a creator intending to make something timeless, but filling it with things that would eventually prove to be very specific to a time period isn't subjective. That's an observation about the objective history of certain ideas. I think there's some confusion between "technically outdated" and "a blatant product of a period", but I don't know exactly how to define that, or if it's worth having if we have to go to those lengths.
  • In theory I would be perfectly fine with non-present day settings being on Unintentional Period Piece, and here's why: Like I said in my expected example, it's a matter of things like fashion, slang, and cultural norms taken together. These could show up in things set at other times. It is unintentional after all. In other words, yeah, the setting is supposed to be the future, but your fashion, slang, and cultural norms can still make it feel like the 60s when we're not in the 60s anymore, even if (if not because) it wasn't supposed to be set then. That said, Zeerust is supposed to cover that, I think, at least for sci-fi? Maybe Unintentional Period Piece needs a slight rename?
  • The Technology Marches On problem bugs me as well. A particular pet peeve of mine is how often I see, specifically, how cell phones would break X plot or Y entire movie, just by existing. So often such examples act like you would need a complete rewrite to adjust for them, and that cell phones (and perhaps more importantly, people) are completely infallible. As if cell phones can't run out of batteries at awkward times, or someone couldn't ignore your calls, like cell phones magically normalized all social interaction. That is largely its own problem, but it does overlap a little with Unintentional Period Piece because I do see examples like "This is an Unintentional Period Piece because if this came out a year later, the main character would have had a cell phone and that would have allowed them to circumvent the plot if they could have just called the person they didn't know yet" regardless of how reasonable that actually would be in practice. It feels like a pitch from Radar Secret Service.
  • The COVID thing is a good example of how difficult it can be to judge trends, past or present. A work set in 2020 before 2020 might look silly now, for not showing COVID, but as COVID becomes the past, it's going to be a bit of trivia, especially to younger generations. I learned about the 1918 pandemic when I was younger, but it wasn't until COVID that I found out that Amelia Earhart was permanently affected by the 1918 pandemic. That's certainly something she never forgot, but it's definitely something that culture eventually stopped thinking about her. In other words, she might have thought it unthinkable to set a story in that period without referencing the pandemic, but most people nowadays wouldn't notice for a second if a story about her never brought it up. It reminds me of the weird references I run into about 9/11 when it comes to this sort of topic, despite people born right after it turning 20 soon.
  • I'm behind the idea of Nebulous Now and Instantly Dated. Overall I think they might be able to mostly replace key parts of this one with less confusion.

Edited by Jokubas on Jun 4th 2021 at 2:47:13 AM

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#78: Jun 4th 2021 at 2:46:52 PM

[up] Great analysis. I think Technology Marches On could take some of the more nitpicky misuse we see. TechnologyMarchesOn.Cell Phones is a whole page about plots that don't make sense anymore due to cell phones.

To add a bit, here's my summary of the distinction between the "time dissonance" tropes here:

  • Present-Day Past: A work is a Period Piece that takes place in a specific time period in the past, but it feels more like the time it was made.
  • Unintentional Period Piece: A work is set in the Nebulous Now, but feels very tied to the specific time it was made.
    • This doesn't seem like trivia to me. I am not sure whether it should be YMMV or an objective trope.
    • There is some ambiguity between Nebulous Now and Present Day that makes this somewhat subjective.
    • The unintentional part seems to invite complaining and borderline examples, and perhaps should be removed. That would make this more like a "work that embodies a time period" trope.
  • Two Decades Behind: A work is set in the Nebulous Now or the Present Day, but has dated elements from a few decades ago. Inverse of Present-Day Past.
  • Zeerust: Work is set in the future, but feels very specifically tied to the time period it was made.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Jokubas Since: Jan, 2010
#79: Jun 4th 2021 at 2:58:42 PM

I'll admit the subtle differences between a lot of things is overwhelming me at the moment. Case in point, I keep forgetting that Period Piece is a very specific thing that Unintentional Period Piece is referencing.

I guess for me I feel like the spirit of Unintentional Period Piece is just a little broader than the letter of it being "wrote a story, circumstances lead to it looking like you set out to make a Period Piece".

I'm so lost, though, that right now my vote would go toward splitting Unintentional Period Piece.

  • Put the "oops, this thing is dated" element of it into Instantly Dated.
  • Put the "this looks like a time capsule of when it came out" into a new "work that embodies a time period" trope without the burden of the unintentional and with a bent toward the time period as a whole to avoid the "technically outdated" nitpicks?

EDIT: Okay, Popular History is related to this as well and is something I was looking for earlier.

Edited by Jokubas on Jun 4th 2021 at 3:36:46 AM

MissConduct (Septatroper)
#80: Jun 4th 2021 at 6:43:51 PM

To be honest, I think almost all of the "hindsight" based tropes are awful complaining magnets. Creators aren't prophets. They can't know when they're making something that in thirty years, innocuous things in their work are going to date their work, and exactly which things are going to date it. If you told someone in 1963 that the Soviet Union wouldn't exist in 30 years, they'd laugh in your face. And then we get into stuff like slang and fashion - what are creators gonna do, not put their characters in clothes? The worst part is that so many of these examples have this nasty air of "everything is awful unless it matches up to my present perfectly". UPP definitely has it the worst 'cause it's the most broad. There's a lot of "In this one scene at a movie theatre, there's a poster for (movie released same year). This movie is unwatchably dated." Technology Marches On has a lot of "there's no cellphones in this movie, the plot would have been over in 5 seconds if everyone just had cellphones, this movie sucks." (Also, someone else already mentioned this but there seems to be this weird notion on this wiki that cellphones are magical, infallible plot-ruining devices, who are absolutely not bound to the whims of batteries and service towers.) Society Marches On has a lot of pearl-clutching and haughty "Isn't it wonderful that we don't do this anymore?! Tisk tisk tisk!" The "in hindsight" quartet ("Funny Aneurysm" Moment, Harsher/Hilarious In Hindsight) probably deserve their own TRS thread (they're on the "need it" page), but particularly FAM and Harsher have a lot of "Actor plays a character that died and then the actor died" "There's a plot point that's vaguely similar to some real world sad event" and "The Twin Towers are in the background of NYC shots". All of these tropes just feel like shaming creators for not being fortune tellers.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#81: Jun 4th 2021 at 6:46:53 PM

Well, TBF, Society Marches On is waiting for TRS because it's so heavily misused, and most of the pearl-clutching is misuse anyway.

As for UPP...ehh...I'm starting to see why the concept might not be viable. Maybe it could be turned into an exampleless YMMV super-trope, or a disambig for the other ideas we've been discussing here- tropes such as Society Marches On (correctly used), Technology Marches On, and Instantly Dated.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#82: Jun 4th 2021 at 6:56:33 PM

I think there are too many inbounds to justify removing UPP, but imposing stricter criteria might be a good idea.

underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#83: Jun 4th 2021 at 7:09:10 PM

[up]But, if it's not tropable, it's not tropable. If we can't cut the page due to inbounds, we can turn it into a disambig for actually tropable concepts...

(Note: Still willing to be convinced either way, but what kind of criteria are you thinking?)

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#84: Jun 4th 2021 at 7:20:19 PM

I have two ideas:

  • Something that is widely considered to be a "time capsule" of the era when it was made, whether because it very strongly reflects the aesthetics, mentalities and the like; because it helps inform the perception of the era, whether in other works or some part of the public consciousness; or both.
  • Something that contains one or more prominent elements that make it virtually impossible to have been made in another era. I'm not talking about "oh, this shows them eating at a restaurant that doesn't exist anymore", I'm talking about something like Mission to Moscow, a mainstream Hollywood movie praising Josef Stalin (though it doesn't necessarily have to be so extreme, that was the first example that came to my mind).

I was going to say that these may not be mutually exclusive, but now that I've typed them, I wonder if splitting them may be a good idea.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#85: Jun 4th 2021 at 7:57:21 PM

Something that contains one or more prominent elements that make it virtually impossible to have been made in another era

That really just sounds like Present Day.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#86: Jun 4th 2021 at 7:57:55 PM

Between the overlap and the misuse, turning Unintentional Period Piece into a disambig for the (Noun) Marches On series of Trivia items (particularly Science Marches On and Technology Marches On) and Instantly Dated might not be a bad idea. Inbound links would be directed to the pages listed on the disambiguation page.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 4th 2021 at 9:59:20 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#87: Jun 4th 2021 at 8:22:01 PM

[up][up] How so?

[up] Those could maybe be subtropes or sister tropes, but I don't think making it a disambig is necessary. We could try tightening the definition and making new tropes to catch the misuse.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#88: Jun 4th 2021 at 8:23:30 PM

The issue is, nobody can figure out how to define it in a way that either isn't too overly restrictive, or that doesn't overlap with other tropes.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#89: Jun 4th 2021 at 8:25:28 PM

[up] Give me some time to review the thread. I think I can come up with some options.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#90: Jun 5th 2021 at 11:27:18 PM

Trying to catch up and I feel like either I'm missing something or we're overcomplicating a bit. First it seemed that works set in the Present Day don't count because they're a period piece by the notion of just being set in a specific time period (which isn't really what a period piece is), then it seemed that Speculative Fiction can't count because it's not an actual time period?

I just think the best solution is to rework this concept into a YMMV "this work is emblematic of the popular culture of this era" thing. And no, that's not inherently complainy — many people love movies that are products of their time, especially when Nostalgia Goggles come into play. This is definitely a noteworthy thing. Even a work with timeless themes can still be extremely reminiscent of its time period to the point where young viewers will probably need to check Wikipedia to understand most of the jokes and other references, while some older viewers will totally eat all that up.

I also think we should focus less on the "unintentional" aspect because any work set in Present Day is likely going to be a period piece to some extent, and it may also downplay complaints about dated elements. This should be for elements baked into most of the work's design and/or story and/or humor that are unavoidable and very much a product of its time. Like how nearly every episode of The Golden Girls joke about at least least three 80s/90s celebrities, most of whom haven't kept their notoriety, or how most of the animations in Whammy are references to early 2000s pop culture (including very "90s/2000s" things like Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys), or how MAD parodies early 2010s pop culture (like early iPhone ads and young bowlcut Justin Bieber) that were really only around and known in the early 2010s. A creator can do this intentionally to create a time capsule of their era, or they could simply misjudge how well the work will age. But the effect is pretty much the same among audiences.

I'm also super for the Instantly Dated concept (like I said, it'll also help a lot with Hindsight shoehorns and COVID examples in any case) and I bumped it a short while ago with an example but it's still just... sitting there, gathering dust.

As for the time period, we definitely should keep it because it usually takes about ten years to get an idea of what an "era" in pop culture was like, since we tend to define eras by decades.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 5th 2021 at 2:33:37 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#92: Jun 6th 2021 at 7:39:52 PM

The main problem with that idea, though, is still the same one the page has now of how to keep off the nonsense "OMG there was a passing reference to something I recognize! INSTANTLY DATED!" Because while I'm seeing better guidelines than what currently exist, they're still fairly loose.

I'm not rejecting the concept or anything, but I think this needs to be hashed out in detail, because it is far and away the most obnoxious aspect of the trope as it currently stands.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#93: Jun 6th 2021 at 7:49:28 PM

Maybe we could introduce a broader piece of trivia for certain elements that date something, with Technology Marches On as a subtrope. This would probably catch some of the "oh look, a brand that doesn't exist anymore!" usage.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#94: Jun 6th 2021 at 7:53:23 PM

That trivia would be interesting for circumstances where the modern reference or object exists in what's meant to be a historical work, thus reminding viewers of when it was actually made. The only example I have though is from Marble Hornets, where one video had to be edited to blur out (with distortion) a kid in a shirt based on a work that didn't exist when that video was filmed in-universe.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#95: Jun 6th 2021 at 8:50:07 PM

[up][up][up]

Instantly Dated isn't just for "pop culture reference dates the work." It would be for things that are literally inaccurate or misleading or gain a different context by the time they release, similar to Animation Lead Time. For example, if a work meant to be set in July 2020 was instead delayed to July 2021, but still set in the Present Day and referenced the current president as Trump. Or if the work made a joke about a certain celebrity dying and then the celebrity actually died during production. It may also work as an audience reaction to cover the Hindsight misuse for audiences interpreting a joke that wasn't meant to be harsh in production as something harsher due to events happening before its release.

The "Retroactive Period Piece" (name pending) YMMV item is a bit more nebulous as it is fairly broad, but I don't think it's as cringey a concept as people seem to believe. We can keep an eye on it as soon as it launches and require multiple aspects of the work that make it dated, not just "it contains a single reference." We should also flesh out details like whether single dated episodes can count, and whether intentionality matters.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 6th 2021 at 11:53:34 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#96: Jun 6th 2021 at 9:14:21 PM

Right. The idea of Instantly Dated was that a work makes a reference that's topical or relevant during the time of production, but is now dated at the time of release.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#97: Jun 6th 2021 at 9:16:56 PM

[up] No, even that's too broad. It's not just about topicality, but the accuracy or its depiction in the work. Just look at the examples on the draft.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#98: Jun 6th 2021 at 9:42:36 PM

[up] Yeah. A random shoe store or whatnot isn't enough unless it materially affects the work.

2025: the year it all ends?
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#99: Jun 6th 2021 at 9:58:03 PM

[up] Well, characters shopping at a shoe store that closed down by the time the work actually came out would be an example of Instantly Dated, or whatever we call it. But if the shoe store is just less popular when the work's released than it originally was when the work was written, that's not an example.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 6th 2021 at 12:58:09 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

16th Jul '21 7:11:38 PM

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