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Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#201: Jun 10th 2021 at 12:07:54 PM

I mean, the TVA makes sense to me. They're a beaurocracy. What they do doesnt have to seem reasonable or even outwardly make sense. They do what they do because the rules say that's what you do. Loki has a trial because there's supposed to be a trial. The minuteman in charge of the Oklahoma mission says not to look for the perp not because they shouldn't, but because it'd just be a lot of paperwork.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#202: Jun 10th 2021 at 12:19:35 PM

A hypothetical normal person who isn't the main character in a TV show might have a different experience, or the exact same one—at this point, we don't know.

Considering that Loki is never provided with either a proper explanation of what he’s being charged with or any kind of legal counsel I’d guess that everyone gets the same experience.

The outcome of Loki’s trial was pre-determined, that alone is proof that the entire thing was just for show and has no resemblance to an actual trial.

That’s before we consider the arbitrary execution we witnessed for the crime of not having a ticket.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#203: Jun 10th 2021 at 12:23:47 PM

We don't even actually know if there truly is only one single universe. There may well be a multiverse present, albeit heavily limited and restricted to flow the way the Time Keepers' design it to. Would be the easiest way of explaining Endgame Steve at least, and would explain why the "Sacred Timeline" seems to be depicted as coiling.

Like, clearly travelling through time is a lesser offense than being late to work if that's what you're "supposed" to do, as pre-ordained by the TVA. Leave it to a Rick and Morty writer to create an organization that's simultaneously all-powerful but also really stupid.

Edited by Watchtower on Jun 10th 2021 at 3:26:17 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#204: Jun 10th 2021 at 12:24:35 PM

Fucking bureaucracy‘s man.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#205: Jun 10th 2021 at 12:38:19 PM

And of course there's the added wrinkle of the Timekeers, what their deal is, and whether or not their motivations actually line up with what the TVA's official purpose.

Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#206: Jun 10th 2021 at 1:02:16 PM

Am I wrong to assume that the reason the TVA didn't go after the Avengers was because they were destined to snip off the stray timelines themselves by bringing the Stones back where they belonged, but Loki stole the tessaract created the variance which is why they brought him in?

I really wonder what happened to Evil Loki? He completely lacks all the ego and bragging of the standard version, so he must have been through some shit.

[up][up][up][up][up]

The best example of how dogmatic the TVA are was the thing with the numbers. As Loki rightly points out, there are only two people there, they don't need to take a number, just queue up. But they force them to do it anyway.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#207: Jun 10th 2021 at 1:18:35 PM

My biggest question is about how the pruning sticks work.

As noted, the Sacred Timeline seems to coil like it's multiple timelines all moving in the same direction. The implication seems to be that the T.V.A. isn't deleting timelines, but rather dialing time backwards to the moment of divergence to take another crack at making events happen the way they were "supposed to". Like there's a multiverse of parallel timelines, but events within those timelines are perfectly identical as a result of the T.V.A.'s work.

Either that or there is only one timeline, and they're preventing new timelines from being created by dialing time back before a divergence gets too far. This may be what redlining is? Maybe?

There's a lot of unanswered questions that future episodes will probably address. But I assume we're not supposed to believe they're just deleting the timelines and instantly killing everyone in it. If you existed in a variant timeline, you basically blip backwards in time and then continue from there like it didn't even happen, having no idea there ever was another chain of events you lived through.

They use the term "reset" to describe it, after all. They "reset" timelines. They "reset" convicts. It may be that they actually are killing trillions of people every time they snip a branch, but I don't get the impression as yet that this is meant to be the takeaway.

But the T.V.A.'s security uses those batons to "prune" people. Different terminology for the same effect? Maybe. It's... tricky? Time travel is weird.

Let's take Loki as an example. The T.V.A. can't really kill Loki. When his timeline resets, Loki's going to be there with it. It's not going to be this Loki, but it never would have been anyway. However it works, whether his consciousness is sent back in time or if they just kill everyone and make a new timeline, this set of experiences ends one way or another when he's reset.

This is where things get messy. Assuming that resetting means turning back time instead of just snipping the timeline, by removing Loki from the timeline before resetting, the Loki in the T.V.A. office is like a temporal clone. If they reset him, then he'll become the Loki of the reset timeline. If they do not reset him, he will still be present in the reset timeline.

Getting back to the question, I wonder if there's a difference between resetting Loki and pruning him. It may be that resetting Loki sends his consciousness back with the rest of his timeline to merge into his past self while pruning deletes his consciousness outright, effectively "killing" this version of Loki even though a past version of him will exist at the point that the rest of the timeline is reset to.

Or they could just be different words for the same effect, which could be either the time-reversal effect or the Rocks Fall Everyone Dies effect.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
copperglass Since: Aug, 2020
#208: Jun 10th 2021 at 3:54:57 PM

Saw a theory from reddit and I wasn't sure if anyone else mentioned it, so:

Could the TVA be located in the Quantum Realm? Apparently in Antman 2 there's a glimpse of a city when Hank goes to rescue Janet.

Also: I think I can get behind the theory that the Sacred Timeline is the one that will ensure Kang exists.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#209: Jun 10th 2021 at 3:59:05 PM

We should remember

That Loki is going to tell a story about Loki. If the d plus shows have had a trend so far uh I guess wandavision stuck to it’s guns about making the story about Wanda and not about setting up Dr Strange or the multiverse and Falcon Winter Soldier tripped on a ditch and set up a couple of things for the future instead

Could go either way

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#210: Jun 10th 2021 at 4:08:01 PM

[up]Nonsense, Loki messing with the timeline totally means we're getting mutants.

My theory works if you don't think about it! lol

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#211: Jun 10th 2021 at 4:08:20 PM

You’ve convinced me

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#212: Jun 10th 2021 at 4:13:32 PM

[up][up][up] That is certainly something to keep in mind.

However I think the main trap to avoid is the unwillingness to discard theories that are built on concepts too big to squeeze into however many episodes are left. A lot of people got tripped up in WandaVision because they didn't realize that Mephisto or the multiverse isn't something you can squeeze into the last couple of episodes without any explicit buildup.

As things stand right now, Kang is something that can happen. But if the time comes late in the season when we have spent an episode or two with the Timekeepers and no mention of Kang, then we should reassess.

Edited by Falrinn on Jun 10th 2021 at 4:13:45 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#213: Jun 10th 2021 at 4:15:36 PM

I genuinely love and appreciate that this time the director stepped up and said "no, it isn't Mephisto, shut up" as clearly as possible.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#214: Jun 10th 2021 at 4:42:54 PM

The theory I'm subscribing to right now is that the so-called "Sacred" Timeline is the one where Kang the Conqueror succeeds

I think it's the opposite. I think the sacred timeline is trying to prevent Kang from coming into existence.

jdeo1997 BLADE Pathfinders from Orion–Cygnus Arm Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#216: Jun 10th 2021 at 4:51:00 PM

Worth noting that the time keepers do have evil counterparts in the Time Twisters.

Though the show could always combine the two.

Edited by Cortez on Jun 10th 2021 at 7:54:09 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#217: Jun 10th 2021 at 4:52:22 PM

I sincerely hope that we get a new Miss Minutes cartoon in each episode.

Also, how awesome was it to see Tara Strong getting the And Starring treatment?

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#218: Jun 10th 2021 at 5:36:51 PM

The Time Agency protecting Kang is literally just Legends of Tomorrow's first season.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#219: Jun 10th 2021 at 7:09:34 PM

[up]Much higher budget, a more 50s aesthetic, and well, Tom Huddleston.

Definitely a setup episode.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#220: Jun 10th 2021 at 7:38:59 PM

[up][up]I demand this show have a timeline that leads to Beebo.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 10th 2021 at 7:39:35 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#221: Jun 10th 2021 at 11:44:50 PM

Also, how awesome was it to see Tara Strong getting the And Starring treatment?

I'd love to see her show up as, like, the In-Universe voice of Miss Minutes, and it turns out she's a high ranking TVA agent.

Or, on the complete flipside, she's a variant of the real Tara Strong they decided not to reset because... well... why waste a qualified actress.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#222: Jun 11th 2021 at 12:21:51 AM

I want her to be an actual cartoon clock.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#223: Jun 11th 2021 at 7:01:00 AM

Something that's been nagging me, if magic doesn't work in TVA HQ, then why does Loki still look Asgardian and not Jotun? Doylistically it's because his blue look has had so little screentime and relevance and it'd be an extra hassle just to cover a plot hole, but Watsonianly...

My best guess is that Odin used magic to physically alter Loki's physiology to make him pass as Asgardian, which would open up a whole 'nother can of worms about the morality of performing non-necessary surgery on infants to make them conform to societal norms, which. If that's not the character theme they're planning to focus on for him, would probably be bungled.

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#224: Jun 11th 2021 at 7:14:45 AM

Yeah, presumably it was a transformation effect rather than an illusion one, so it has to be turned off rather than kept on. On some quick googling, the same question was asked about why he stayed Asgardian form when he died, and that seems to be the answer that came up.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#225: Jun 11th 2021 at 7:59:42 AM

I have a mostly joking theory that Judge Renslayer does the voice of Miss Minutes because she Lost A Bet. Sort of like how Steve ended up doing those educational videos.

Regarding Loki's appearance, I'd probably go with the handwave that the spell cast on him altered his phenotype and is not just an illusion. But I guess if I wanted a "No Prize" I would say that the TVA nullifies magic powers, but it doesn't undo magic objects themselves. Like the Infinity Stones are powerless, but they still look the same and are presumably still made of the same stuff. Insert reference to the Ship of Theseus here.

Edit - I'm surprised Lost A Bet isn't a trope. I guess because of No New Stock Phrases?

Edited by Hodor2 on Jun 11th 2021 at 10:01:12 AM


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