Jake Wyatt just tweeted that official show apparel is on sale at Hot Topic:
https://x.com/jakewyattriot/status/1913297974832361533?s=46&t=7YT7yMPCw2VMMwQUxWj5_A
I'm slowly working my way through s2. I'm Mid s2e5 and I spoiled myself on a lot of stuff from reading the thread but..
This is so frustrating. The lack of communication for no good reason on big stuff between Clark and Lois. And now Clark and Jimmy are having the same issues because... no-one trusts Superman... again... on nobody Lex Luthor's say so? aagh.
eta:
okay finished episode 5. I hate social awkward stuff to start with and then Lois really took Cat Grant's, who is clearly, unbelievably stupid, words to heart, had a meltdown, and rather than reassuring her, of course she's good enough for him, she's amazing, Clark takes that as a sign they're breaking up? Then we go all knock-off Invincible and he loses a fight to Kara?
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 2nd 2025 at 9:34:31 AM
I have a different interpretation regarding how episodes 4 to 5 play out. Lois and Clark have not been communicating because something keeps pre-empting the conversation, usually something on Lois' side. When Clark and Lois want to talk, something major comes around like Lois' wanting to reconnect with or help out her dad, or someone like Perry interrupting them with a major assignment, or some major catastrophe is happening that needs Superman. Clark is a bit doormat, so when something pre-empts the conversation, he's not one to force the issue. There were multiple times in the first half of the Season where Clark says he wants to talk with Lois about Kara and contacting her, but whenever he tries, Lois goes "I need to take care of something, will get back to you later." Also, the breaking up question was a natural progression of the story. Superman spent an entire half of the season, including a major amount of this specific episode complimenting Lois (including during the interview in this episode as Superman was lowkey describing Lois as who he looks for in a partner). And Clark as far as the episode is concerned, was not aware that Cat was making Lois feel self-conscious. As far as he knows, he has no clear understanding of why Lois was having an emotional meltdown. So having to retread the compliments, have Lois shoot it down, then end with the Break Up question is a bit redundant for time they would spend getting to Kara's reveal. You may not have enjoyed it, as it is valid to do. But it wasn't an illogical leap based on how the writers were progressing things and it was meant to highlight Lois' flaw, not Clark's.
With Jimmy, the communication issue is not the same. Jimmy wasn't pre-empting talking with Clark, he was actively avoiding talking to him, due to the events of episode 4. And it wasn't because he didn't trust Clark and was giving into "Superman is dangerous" hysteria. He was doing it because he was feeling guilty that he couldn't properly defend his best friend and the major face of the Superman hatedom got his position because of Jimmy's advice. He was trying to avoid the awkwardness of his (in his head) betrayal to Clark. He wanted some time to think out a proper way to apologize before speaking to him. Also, one thing about the "Superman Bad" crowd, it's not all of Metropolis, it's a select group of elites within upper political and military echelons. The average citizen still absolutely adores Superman. That's why people were so excited to see him attend a charity event for kids, people wanted to see Superman.
As for the fight at the end, Kara is a trained warrior and was about ready to kill Clark until she was told to take him alive. Clark is not a trained fighter and as a personality trait, actively goes easy on everyone so as to not hurt anyone. Clark tends to get knocked around a lot, by people a lot weaker than Kara. So trained warrior with killer instinct vs. untrained and peaceful hippie tends to cause fights to go a certain way.
All this said, I wasn't a fan of how episode 4 flowed, especially at the end, which impacted 5. I thought the emotional impact could have been strengthened further without making the characters look silly with a few changes in the final scenes of 4. But given the state of the characters at the start of 5, I thought the episode itself flowed fine.
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The thing is the coincidences that stop Clark and Lois are increasingly contrived and they let each one stop them for much longer than they should. So it's implied its half and half they can't talk because... they're not trying that hard to. Hence the frustration to me it's not a fun plot.
Now having the whole episode, Jimmy's plot minus him not actually getting to talk to Clark is fine. He's talking the STAR labs thing more to heart than he needs to because he's a good guy and realises by the end he can't dodge his friend. (since they live together it was bewildering he even tried). Given he was ambushed at the STAR thing anyway... As one episode thing it was fine, it was just in conjunction with the ongoing thing, I disliked it.
As to the breakup, sure the episode is short on time but the response 'are you breaking up with me?' to Lois going 'Everyone leaves me!' does not scan as opposed to him saying 'I don't want to leave you'.
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I say that because MWAS's whole thing with the Kryptonian Empire strikes me as strongly reminding me of Invincible asdoes Kara's whole attitude of you're a kryptonian, you should be a loyal warrior thing. I don't pretend to be familiar with all of superman. I've seen the 70s movie, II as a kid. MoS, and a couple of STAS episode anyway, Yeah there have been evil krptonians before but they were criminals like Zod and Krypton has been dystopic before but never an outright conquering evil empire afaik. It just feels like a very different vibe to me. I know there's more shoes to drop with Kara and her 'father' though.
With regards to Jimmy, him ducking Clark wasn't supposed to be permanent. He just needed some time to think up a solution. People do try to use avoidance as temporary fix, before they could do something more permanent. Then he got sidetracked by Kara. But his early dialogue was him trying to think up a good way to make it up to Clark, because he thought he screwed it up so bad.
With regards to Lois' dialogue, it could have probably been re-arranged to flow a bit better, but it did plant nuggets to make breaking up a valid question. It was a lot of dialogue inside that small breakdown. It included all the events that were stressing her out with her dad and Vicki wanting her to move to Gotham. It had her insecurities of not being particularly successful that's been present since the beginning, but exacerbated in the multiverse episode with the League of Loises. Superman having a host of more successful potential partners compared to her, especially with how everyone was treating him and Silver St. Cloud. Her feeling so alone, as up until Clark, she feels most of the people close to her leaves, either by choice or dying. All of this is supposed to culminate in Lois feeling like she can't handle being the main partner to the Superman, the living god. It's supposed to be a "This isn't going to work out, so I'm ending this now before it collapses" feel. Perhaps they could have Lois been more front and center with the whole "I'm ending this now" amidst all the emotion, but time is short. Though, I do enjoy the underlying subtext that Lois is hurting Clark the way he always feared. Clark has always wanted to be treated normal, not like an alien. Clark is his true self, while Superman is how he helps the world through his gifts. Lois is breaking up with him because she isn't good enough for Superman, rather than being a good fit for Clark, just by putting him on a pedestal he doesn't want to be on, instead of being fearful like how Lex Luthor is doing it.
Also, for the Kryptonians, according to Jake Wyatt, the Kryptonians were more influenced by the Saiyans from Dragon Ball than the Viltrumites from Invincible. From what he said with his early pitches about Kara for Season 2, he basically called her Kryptonian Vegeta. If you look at her early concept art, you can see the resemblance. The main thing about Krypton compared to Viltrum is that they're not the big dogs of the universe. The reason their empire is in decline was because they found an opponent they couldn't roll over and got destroyed. It's not like in Invincible where Viltrum's forces were depleted for a different, more subtle reason, nor was it that they had a giant coalition of forces having to beat them back. In that sense, Krypton is more like the Saiyans under the force of Freeza.
Edited by HeyMikey on Jul 2nd 2025 at 6:07:36 AM
Honestly, I also read it as Lois being in a really bad place after her dad bailed on her again, and the breakup being less about jealousy and more about her abandonment issues reaching a boiling point that she breaks up with Clark over the slightest hint he would also abandon her want self-destructively trying to tear off the bandaid. Something I can...relate to, unfortunately. The fact the rest of the season presents her as the one in the wrong for it and puts it on her to mend things makes it go down easier for me, too.
I found Episode 6 much more interesting to be honest. ooh, a GL simulation bot. Neato. And no Hawk-family in this universe I guess. :( It's nice that Kara is at least unaware of the devastation she's caused and extremely distressed by it even if she has been brainwashed into the old empire = good thing. Just plot and solid characterisation for Clark, Kara and Brainiac. "Primus" neato.
About the holograms Brainiac had him fight. Still not sure if that one guy was a Gordanian
or a Parademon.
@dccutter: I mentionned it before, but at some point there were apparently people on this very wiki who kept trying to [accuse Kara of being Unintentionally Unsympathetic and Designated Hero for taking part into the genocide. Apparently completely ignoring that she was brainwashed into doing it and absolutely horrified once she finds out the truth.
While that obviously doesn't apply to Kara, I wonder if characters like Livewire apply for unintentionally unsympathetic. Feels like the show kinda forgot some of these villains were largley remoreless criminals. Livewire especially, she feels like a different character in the latter half of the 2nd season compared to her earlier appearence in the John Henry episode.
With rest atleast, they were simply thieves from what we see, and Intergang was rather bad at being even that. So them having Heel–Face Turn, or atleast becoming friendly enemies with heroes, isn’t really huge leap to make.
Livewire I wouldn’t exactly say she gets turned into a different character, as much as we simply get spot see sides of her beyond what we saw before. Granted, she was ready to bomb Metropolis in opening two parter. So I can understand why some people may have problem with her taking sympathetic role.
For Livewire, I pretty much interpret her as being in a Waller mindset or the villains from DCAU's Justice League Unlimited during the finale. They're villains. On a normal standard day, Livewire's raison d'être is to use their talents to score big amounts of money and live in luxury. Though she has twinges of empathy when they tickle a soft spot for her (I really think it should have been made unambiguous that Heatwave wanted them to go back rather than leaving it ambiguous their thought patterns in episode 7, Heatwave seems a lot more naturally empathetic than Livewire, but leaving it ambiguous keeps the door open for audience interpretation and future characterization). But if Brainiac commits genocide, she no longer gets her life of luxury, so there is a bit of self-interest in it. For Livewire, I'm willing to believe her villainy expresses itself in lack of care for others to fulfill her selfish goals, but she still doesn't want the world to end. And she's still a villain fugitive not allowed in proper society. It's not like she got to be a part of the Kent family BBQ or the Metropolis rebuilding.
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I can get her having different sides, but I'm a bit bothered by the show's use of her being queer kinda falls into automatically making her a redeemable or good person despite her prior actions. Like only a couple episodes earlier she threatened multiple people's lives and almost murdered John Henry as part of a saboteur job, plus getting away with her crimes. So she was perfectly willing to be a hit woman which makes the incredibly crummy portrayal of her in the latter half of the season kinda weird.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 4th 2025 at 10:28:03 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Livewire as a whole is terribly inconsistent across adaptations. Harley Quinn, who had similar origins, suffered that for a while too until overall she landed for good in the 'sympathetic' field, for better or worse.
Half the time Livewire seems to be a jerk with no redeeming qualities, the other half we're supposed to expect she'll come to the side of good or that we should feel for her. I get that most DC heroes and villains have wildly variable takes but overall they seem to consistently land on 'sympathetic' or 'unsymapthetic' sides. Batman, jerk as he can be, is almost always expected to be sympathetic, Reverse Flash or Black Manta are utter scum even if they're used for laughs, so on. Over time some characters drift from one side to another like Poison Ivy but Livewire has been just with a foot on each side since way when the DCAU animated series portrayed her as just a jerk and the DCAU comics portrayed her as pitiable, and she's never stopped bouncing back and forth that way.
Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.Honestly, I'm waiting to see how the following seasons do with Livewire, Heatwave and Intergang - AKA if they're gonna be treated as completely reformed or it was just an Enemy Mine situation and they're gonna go back to being villains, albeit probably Friendly Enemy type. But I'm honestly kinda hoping for the latter, because while I love redemption stories, [I'd rather this doesn't end up stripping Superman of his Rogues Gallery.

Or Jessica only knows about Superman from afar. She only sees the persona he presents to the general public, the Superman who saves everyone, is kind and compassionate, and shows a bright uplifting inspirational face to the public. She doesn't see the doubts Clark has underneath, being an alien living among humans, the person he only shows to his closest friends and family. It would be amusing if part of Jessica's rise to being her own superhero is to have a mantra of "What would Superman do?", based entirely off what she reads in the Daily Planet or hears off Flamebird.
Edited by HeyMikey on Mar 4th 2025 at 9:18:08 AM