If the redirect continues to cause problems even after this thread's work is done, we can always bring it back to TRS. I think that might have been how Hey Its That Guy and Hey Its That Voice were added to the PRLC after they continued to cause problems despite the move to JustForFun.Role Association.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 18th 2021 at 11:15:21 AM
I got a rock for Halloween.That most often happens with Pothole Magnets and I don't think SANTBD is a pothole magnet, just popular as an audience reaction. Reality Ensues is a redirect in worse state in terms of potholing but it's not on PRLC (yet).
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Does this mean it's open season on cutting the ZCE's and the ROCEJ violators with no fear of reprisal from Single Issue Wonks? Hooray!
ZCE would mean that the example doesn't explain how the moral is heavy-handed, because that's the definition we've gone with.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Which is a good chunk of these gushy "here's the aesop, it's good" examples.
I have a question. On the same day the crowner was decided, multiple new subpages were created, mainly under SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.Video Games. Were the two events related, or was this just a coincidence?
Good question.
Edit: Ugh, messed up on the ping somehow...
Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 20th 2021 at 1:49:39 PM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallWe'll see if I can do this properly.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall![]()
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That's not an unlikelihood, that's a big part of the reason why I didn't want to take this behemoth on by myself. People want to defend this trope because it's their chance to force their beliefs down others' throats.
Edit: Seems like one user created most of the subpages on SANTBD Video Games on the 18th. I don't want to make any damning judgements, but I think this might be an attempt at sabotage from someone who really doesn't want this trope gone.
Edited by MissConduct on Jun 20th 2021 at 2:33:26 PM
Well, I pinged them over in my other post. Hopefully they'll stop by soon and give their reasonings. Maybe it was entirely coincidental. Stranger things have happened.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallThe thing about the SANTBD bad entries is that they aren't gushing in the traditional sense, "Tropertown has a moral about pro-trans rights and that's amazing", it's more like "Tropertown has a moral about pro-trans rights and that's an important moral that more people need to agree with because I'm pro-trans rights" or something like that. Sometimes they like to throw in real world facts or references to real world events to try to back their claims up.
Some ZCE's are pretty straightforward:
"The Princess and the Frog. Work hard to achieve your goals, and don't go for the quick "too good to be true" route. At the same time though, it's important to not neglect things like friendship or love."
It doesn't explain how The Princess and the Frog pushes these morals into Anviliciousness, so it's an easy cut candidate (or at least a rewrite, though I'd argue that The Princess and the Frog is not Anvilicious enough to warrant inclusion).
But there's other times I'm a little bit less certain, partly on the fear of looking like a bigot or someone who hates progress:
"The Amazon Trail:
Its Green Aesop. Considering what begun in 2019 or how much destruction has been done in the Amazon prior to governments allowing slashing and burning, the Amazon is a huge ecosystem with a lot of biodiversity.
Lope de Aguirre [a Spanish Conquistador] was not a good man at all.
And neither was Arana. Arana flat out brags to you about how much of a Corrupt Corporate Executive he is, and if you double cross the tribe instead of lying to him, you get told off for having done so.
The debate about oil drilling in the Amazon. You are not told to take a side (Even though certain events after the games were made might guide you towards one side) [potholed to Harsher in Hindsight", your entire objective was to listen to both of them and acknowledge that yes, Both Sides Have a Point."
This entry barely touches on The Amazon Trail. It spends a lot of time on tangents and bringing in the real world.
Going back to my OP, the "When Can Mario Retire" Unraveled that inspired me to start this entire thread, and for that matter the rest of the SANTBD's on the Unraveled page, which I didn't even notice are all just as bad.
"The "educational rap" section of the Perfect Pokérap parodies the Anvilicious nature of the genre, but the Drugs Are Bad section transitions into how we shouldn't stigmatize drug users.
"I tell you Natu do drugs but if someone's smoking Treecko does that make them a bad person? Definitely no! I don't mean to carr-Yanma point in this verse, is that alienating drug users makes things worse! Don't lock someone up if they take a Hitmonchan and criminalizing addicts is a really bad plan. Big pharma is the root of our country's problem with opiate addiction!...Golem!"
“Every Sonic game is blasphemous” makes fun of Biblical literalism, which feels especially necessary in the 21st century.
Although the setup involves a need for creating sad clown paintings, "I used The Sims to perfect my apartment" provides the message that it is perfectly fine asking your loved ones for help.
The Kirby episode drops a much needed anvil for people who analyse media in search of a deeper meaning: Sometimes there isn't and that's okay.
"When Can Mario Retire" drops the important fact that millennials were born in an age where they literally cannot retire even if they did everything right.
The Crash episode deals with nostalgia and how wanting to escape to the past, while an understandable desire, is ultimately a bad mindset to engage in if you want to live in the here and now."
None of these explain how the Unraveled episodes were Anvilicious (except for the drug parody one, and even that's kinda tenuous because the parody section ends before the quote starts). A part of me wants to immediately burn any entry that uses words like "unfortunately" or "sadly" or "necessary" (like the Biblical literalism quote above) or "important" or anything that invokes Funny Aneurism Moment and/or Harsher in Hindsight (like the Amazon Trail one), but I'm not certain I can do that.
Edited by MissConduct on Jun 20th 2021 at 3:09:06 PM
It doesn't explain how The Princess and the Frog pushes these morals into Anviliciousness, so it's an easy cut candidate
Its Green Aesop. Considering what begun in 2019 or how much destruction has been done in the Amazon prior to governments allowing slashing and burning, the Amazon is a huge ecosystem with a lot of biodiversity."
This entry barely touches on The Amazon Trail. It spends a lot of time on tangents and bringing in the real world.
I can't easily comment on the rest, due to it not being clear what you are saying versus what the example is saying. Neither of the first two should be cut; they are misuse to be moved to the proper part of the wiki. Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Hello. I am the one who made subpages for SANTBD for certain examples. I can assure that it was purely a coincidence as I had no idea that this discussion even existed. My main reasoning was that since some of the examples were too long, I felt like it would be better to make a subpage for it, since the same thing happened to the game Cyberpunk 2077 months before I did the same. I had no intention to sabotage this thread and in fact, I agree that this trope should be dealt with because I’ve seen many misuse and sabotage. Thank you.
Right now, we're copy-pasting examples to Sandbox.Some Anvils Need To Be Dropped. Why don't you stick around TRS? We'd love to have more hands.
I'll help out right now by starting SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.South Park. This show actually is very Anvilicious at times, so many of these examples could be rewritten and moved to that category, possibly as its own subpage. However, many of these are Played for Laughs or Spoof Aesops and the page, like many other subpages of this type, takes things way too damn seriously sometimes and uses the page to preach, which is really not great for a show as contentious as this one.
I couldn't get past the first section cuz my wrist hurts a bit.
- The show likes to remind celebrities that their egos can sometimes outstrip their talents, if they were ever talented to start with, their extravagant Hollywood lifestyles have caused them to lose touch with the common folk and the working world, or that they have gone too far, as seen in "Free Hat", "Fat Butt and Pancake Head", "Butt Out", "The Biggest Douche in the Universe", "Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset", "The China Probrem", and "Fishsticks". While the "celebrities are annoying" stuff is pretty blatant, it's way more often presented as a straight Take That! than anything really deep, barring a few standouts which could use more specific explanations. Many of these episodes are not very serious at all, like "Fat Butt and Pancake Head."
- The show also highlights how absurd some trends are, such as in "South Park Is Gay!", "Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset", "Chinpokomon", and "Smug Alert!" "Chinpokomon" is the only episode that may hammer in the Trend Aesop, though I don't really know if it's entirely anti-trend since it admits trends are inevitable and it's hard to not follow them. The other three have different messages. I say come back to "Chinpokomon" and the rest can get their own entries if fitting.
- Other chapters lampshade how crazy humanity is and has become as a whole: "Freak Strike", "I'm a Little Bit Country", "Butt Out", "Douche and Turd", "Follow That Egg!", "Britney's New Look", and "The Ring". This is way too broad to be anvilicious and all of these episodes have very different messages, and only some of them are very anvilicious.
- The Movie, its predecessor "Death", "Good Times With Weapons", and a few other episodes show that there are much worse things in the world than swearing or impropriety, and that parents should spend more time with their kids and stop going on senseless attempts to sanitize the world. This is definitely a theme hammered in by the movie and "Death," but it's not a super strong theme in "Good Times with Weapons," more of a punchline at the end. The quote makes it clear how blatant it is but we can expand upon it more.
Stan: You know, I think that if parents would spend less time worrying about what their kids watch on TV, and more time worrying about what's going on in their kid's lives, this world would be a much better place.
Kyle: Yeah, I think that parents only get so offended by television because they rely on it as a babysitter, and the sole educator of their kids.
Kenny: You know what I think? Basically, if you let the decision of what you watch stop at the parents' control, then what can you see? It'll stay the same because they'll just get offended although their kids are not delighted with the television series they put on for their kids. - Most of the show's episodes on religion - be it examining Christianity, Catholicism, Mormonism, Judaism, or even atheism - focus around a central theme: see the forest for the trees. At its core, religion is about being a good person by promoting virtues like generosity, selflessness, kindness and altruism. That's what you should be focusing on, rather than minute details of a religion's canon. And that absolutely includes your own religion. I don't know if any of the episodes hammer this in enough to be Anvilicious. That's more just An Aesop, maybe Hard Truth Aesop even.
- Several episodes, such as "Fat Camp" and "Die Hippie Die", say that if you want something to change, you need to take the initiative to make it happen, rather than just sitting around expecting or hoping it will happen. Don't remember the hippie episode well, but I rewatched "Die Hippie Die" and I don't think the aesop's really beaten over anybody's head. It's got a couple Straw Characters to represent lazy fat people but the episode's more comedic than anything, I think.
- Jimmy and Timmy teach that disabled people are human too, as both are portrayed as being humanly flawed beyond just their physical disabilities, but having strengths as well. The show has only taught this message once or twice. Timmy's mostly played for laughs and Jimmy's a character with purpose beyond his disability. This is honestly kind of a condescending entry ("wow, disabled people are people too, who knew!").
- Several episodes teach that everyone has a right to their own beliefs and interests, and you can't force people to view things the way you want them to. The show also says that, quite often, you're Not Helping Your Case when you push back too hard, because it will just drive people further away and make them even less likely to listen to you. Way too broad.
- Episodes like "A Scause for Applause", "Butterballs", "Rainforest Schmainforest" and "Safe Space" show that public or online support isn't as noble as it seems. It's far more predatory because they are profiting off of other people's misery in order to congratulate themselves for doing the bare minimum. All the while, the real victim keeps suffering in silence as they are forced into the spotlight as a charity case. The people who do want to help are either uneducated about the topic or completely misguided in their attempt to help. It might count but needs to elaborate more on the portrayal of the message. Especially cuz this feels like a ROCEJ risk.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 20th 2021 at 10:15:48 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I'd be fine with just cutting them if in doubt. Any that fit Anvilicious or something else can be added back later.
SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic is 100% misuse, none stating how they are heavy handed about the message. Any reason not to cut it yet?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 20th 2021 at 9:49:27 AM
Because those who know about the context should go through and see if any of the works actually are anvilicious. Knowing MLP is an aesop-driven show designed with children in mind, I'm sure there's a few lessons that aren't very subtle at all.
Remember: we can do a lot of good for Anvilicious in this cleanup by sending some of the more well-liked aesops to that item, to counteract the idea that Anvilicious is a means to complain. That's why I'm pushing to rewrite and move entries when possible, not just nuke them without a care.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Also, just because the example doesn't describe how heavy-handed the moral message is, doesn't mean that the example can't be moved to the supertrope. Very few examples should just be removed.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Some examples from the literacy section. Some of these morals may have been relevant or revolutionary for its time or the tropers contrived a moral from it and didn't explain it too well.
- Richard III has the anvil that absolute monarchy is a terrible form of government because there is no way for the system to prevent a tyrant from coming to power, and that even if the king is benevolent the country isn't safe, because an aspiring tyrant would have no reason not to kill everyone closer in line to the throne than he.
- Cabaret drops a big anvil near the end about how politics can and will affect you. Also if you just blindly accept what one group does, you may as well be with them.
- The Merchant of Venice: The play, particularly the affronts Shylock goes through, can be interpreted as sharp indictment of antisemitism.
- The Trojan Women is emphatic about slavery—in this particular case women as war trophies—being abominable. It's also worth noting that this was written back in the 5th century BCE—the argument over the horror of slavery is that long. Of particular note to Euripides's audience is that women are people too, not merely accessories and breeding engines.
- The Laramie Project: The play brutally enforces the idea that people who genuinely believe that others deserve to die just because they're gay really do exist and trying to pretend they don't does nothing but harm gay people. It would feel ridiculous if it weren't all based on a true story.
These ones are from the web original folder. All but the action man entry are my own entries and I admit again to personally misusing the trope.
- Andrei Terbea is a youtube animator who talks about certain subjects and deconstructs drama for his audience. In Family Channels Should Not Exist, Andrei discusses family channels and how damaging they can be for the children involved. He shows the channels: "The Norris Nuts", "Myka Stauffer", and " 8 Passengers" as examples of parents who let their sense of self-worth overshadow their responsibilities. He explains how these channels are violating their children's privacy, emotionally abusing them in their videos in order to humiliate them online, and displaying personal pictures to strangers who have no right to know or see them in the first place. Andrei also explains how psychology comes into effect with social media, showing an article that discusses how self-esteem is increased by the frequency of posts at the cost of losing self-control. Andrei believes family channels are really dangerous and irresponsible, as they are taking advantage of their children's naivety, embarrassing them online, and sharing personal information with less than savoury people.
- "Action Man: Battlefield Casualties", a video by Veterans for Peace UK challenging the British army's policy of recruiting 16-year-olds. It takes the form of Parody Commercials for Action Man toys that pull no punches in showing how joining the army can ruin your life (or end it). It also plays its premise for very Black Comedy, so the lack of subtlety ends up making the whole thing hilarious, while still getting its message across.
- "How Vine Revitalized Minstrelsy" by Robbert Tolppi explains how harmful and self-destructive it is to feed racism by acting as racial stereotypes for a comedy routine. In the video, Robbert Tolppi explained and showed vines from King Bach that fed the harmful stereotype of Black people being criminals, having no dads, eating watermelons and fried chicken with his comedy routine without deconstructing those stereotypes. Robert Tolppi compares his routine to the Minstrel Shows that mocked African Americans and shows how tropes from minstrelsy had evolved into blaxploitation and self-mockery.
- A few question and answer videos from You Tuber Lexi Lore provides a necessary lesson about stage personas. For context, Lexi Lore has a career in both porn and You Tube and she spoke about she was mistreated in the comments of those videos because of her actions and careers. She tells the audience that her actions in the video are just part of the job and she addresses the harmful stereotypes generated from that career (emotional issues, family problems and promiscuity to name a few). She states that everything behind the camera is just part of the job, safety and consent is everyone's top priority, and everything is discussed before filming to make sure that everyone is comfortable with the scene. Just because someone works in the porn industry, it doesn't mean they are any less of a person and they do have personal lives to be respected.
Edited by Buck on Jun 21st 2021 at 6:57:38 AM
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?

If that happens it will likely be locked. And if the redirect continues to cause problems then it might be cut and the PRLCED like had been done I the past.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 18th 2021 at 6:44:57 AM