Not Thriving: Best Is Average Better Is Best

This trope has existed since 2007, has a whopping 2 on-page examples, 12 wicks, and 674 inbounds. I think I can make out what this trope is (it's about when something that would ordinarily be labeled, say, small, medium, and large is instead labeled something like big, bigger, or biggest), but I initially couldn't because both the description and laconic are extremely unclear as to what it is.

I think there's a trope here, it's just badly described and named, so maybe this could be sent back to TLP? Or maybe the salvage yard?

EDIT: I think I understand the trope a little better. Rewrote write-up in accordance.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Apr 10th 2021 at 4:12:47 AM

Opening this.

Based on my reading of the page, I think that the trope is instead about advertising copy.

Specifically, it seems to be about a system in which, due to certain advertising laws, a product labelled "the best" is likely in fact no better than others of its kind, while a product labelled "better" is actually likely better than others of its kind.

Thus the label "best" implies a product of average quality, while the label "better" implies a product of superior quality.

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 9th 2021 at 4:52:40 PM

I think I get that, my issue was the trope may need to be sent back to TLP/the salvage yard at best, and cut at worst. What should we do?

I think it should be cut.

Cut, this doesn't feel like a trope more than just an advertising quirk.

If anything, it might warrant an entry on a usefulNotes page somewhere, as it's directly driven by truth-in-advertising laws.

Un Truth In Advertising?

Eh, even that doesn't feel like it'd be a trope, and if it is I fear it becoming a space for people to complain about false advertising practices. Or taking hyperbole way too seriously.

It seems like an advertising trope to me—a trope regarding word-choice, akin to "Never Say "Die"".

The current name is somewhat awkward to say and somewhat unclear to parse, I fear. Perhaps a new name might help?

I was thinking that this trope needs a new name if it can be salvaged at all. Can't think of one though.

Using a custom title, perhaps tweak the current to be the following?

"Best" Means "Okay", "Better" Means "Better".

Or, less succinctly something like this?

"Okay" Is Labelled "Best", "Improved" Is Labelled "Better"

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 9th 2021 at 7:58:02 PM

Custom titles are not meant for fundamentally changing trope titles. It'd need to be moved anyways. Otherwise, I don't know, this sounds hard to salvage as a trope in the first place.

What is better is subjective, we can't determine what fits this "trope". I say cut.

Edited by Delibirda on May 9th 2021 at 8:44:01 PM

Eh? This is about what advertisers call better instead of outright saying it's the best, not whether the viewers actually think it's better.

For example, if a fast food company said "Our fries are better than what you'll find anywhere else" instead of "We've got the best fries in the world." The idea is that advertisers are more prone to using wording like the former.

I think this is a valid advertising trope, and the low amount of wicks is just because we don't have a lot of works pages for advertising campaigns. On the subject of fast food advertising, The Burger King is the only fast food advertising page I can think of. (I'm aware that this isn't limited to fast food advertising; it's just the first thing I thought of.)

Maybe this needs a new name, such as the Better Equals Best And Best Equals Mediocre phrasing in the description (or we could drop the word "and" to make it Better = Best, Best = Mediocre). It would be similar to how I thought to rename Overwhelming Exception to Everything Except Most Things because the latter was the Laconic for that trope.

Edit: Maybe Salvage Yarding (or sending back to TLP if someone offers to sponsor this) would be fine, but I'm against completely cutting it.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 9th 2021 at 7:32:51 AM

I mean...this is an actual thing, sure, but I'm not seeing how this is a trope, not even an Advertising one, because it's just a way they market the product and the wording they use. It's not creative. Aren't Advertising Tropes meant to apply to, like, common commercial narratives and portrayals? That's what tropes are, and I'm not comfortable calling this a trope.

You know what it reminds me more of? An Advertising Stock Phrase.

I didn't think about it being a stock phrase, but maybe you're right about that.

It's more like Call a Rabbit a "Smeerp" or Good Is Bad And Bad Is Good than a "stock" phrase.

Someone very knowledgeable in advertising lingo and practices may be able to salvage this one, but that person isn't me.

Edited by Tabs on May 9th 2021 at 5:43:42 AM

If this had anything to do with a narrative or in-universe meanings, I'd agree, but it doesn't. It's just something advertisers say. And it doesn't even seem common enough to parody, unlike, say, Nine out of Ten Doctors Agree.

Edited by WarJay77 on May 9th 2021 at 8:45:14 AM

Advertising is storytelling and often creative in the sense that it sets up a positive narrative of a product.

I agree.

I don't see how parodies are relevant here; the lack of wicks is because Advertising/ is probably is one of the least used work namespaces on the wiki. Plus, this isn't on No Straight Examples, Please!, so a lack of parodies isn't that big of a deal.

Edit: I added a TRS notice to the page and changed the Real Life header to Advertising since those examples are from ad campaigns.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2021 at 4:14:30 AM

Indeed, I'm inclined to agree.

Furthermore, this is a case in which the word "best" is being used due to some creative thinking: Advertisers can get away with calling their product "the best" because it's the same as all the others, and thus no one is ahead of any other, and thus all are, in a sense, "the best".

It's the Jedi Truth of marketing, in essence.

Ah, that's a pity. But fair enough, if so!

Can we do that without a custom title?

If we're going with that, I might suggest swapping the overall order around and re-using the word "better" to emphasise that it actually means what it seems to say. Something like this, perhaps:

Best Means Average Better Means Better

Or perhaps, if we don't mind being more wordy:

The Best Is Just Average What Is Better Is Better

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 10th 2021 at 1:34:21 PM

I think Best Is Average Better Means Better is a good name. It's certainly catchy.

Edit (not directed to the above post): Would Better Is Better Than Best work, or would it violate No New Stock Phrases? We could custom title it to add quotation marks around the first and last words (but not the second instance of "Better") if that would make it more clear.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2021 at 7:58:18 AM

I think the discussion is getting a little bit away from the fact that whether or not this is a trope, it's not being used on the site, and hasn't been for a long time.

Also, since there's so few wicks, I went through them all.

5 of them are potholes or sinkholes. They're all correct usage (but I do want to note that 2 of them are borderline complaining and 1 is used in an indented response to an example on the page for a different trope).

The 2 on the page don't actually mention the specific language of best/better being used in advertising. I think I get why they're on the page, but it's weird that there aren't more illustrative examples here.

2 are on indexes, another 2 are on administrivia pages (Pages needing wicks and Tropes needing examples), and 1 is the trope page's laconic.

The remaining 2 are the only actual uses of it being listed as a trope used in a work; 1 is obvious misuse, and 1 is close to being a ZCE.

I don't necessarily disagree that this is a tropeable concept, but I think it's important to note that this trope has existed since September 2007 yet 43% of its use on the site is made up of indexes, administrivia pages, its own laconic, and misuse.

Edited by Nightshade92 on May 10th 2021 at 10:01:42 AM

I mean, wicks are wicks. the only ones that don't count are those on temporarily administrivia pages and Linking to an Article Within the Article. I guess misuse also doesn't count since it is meant to be removed. But otherwise, the tropeworthiness of this is questionable, and the number of examples is too low no matter how I slice it since it's not on Example Sectionectomy's subindexes.

Edited by Piterpicher on May 10th 2021 at 4:49:32 PM