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Ambiguous Name: N Word Privileges

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Deadlock Clock: Jul 4th 2021 at 11:59:00 PM
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#26: May 1st 2021 at 8:35:34 AM

[up] No offense, but we're really trying to be on topic. Could you do that?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#27: May 1st 2021 at 11:21:27 AM

Maybe the problem here is that many examples have insufficient context, not that the title is confusing.

As someone who did a massive Captain Obvious sinkhole cleanup a while back, I wouldn't put it past a lot of tropers to pothole N-Word Privileges in their own entry because they think they're being clever. But that's not reason for renaming, that's reason for cleanup. I believe the title N-Word Privileges is well understood as certain users having the privileges, and I'm pretty sure it sees use outside TV Tropes, another reason against renaming.

GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#28: May 1st 2021 at 8:18:43 PM

Found this edit for The Klan, which is more of a misuse than a chainsaw being used as a wedding ring.

This.

They almost always will have drawling accents, be hot-tempered, drop plenty of Cluster F Bombs, chanting "Kill the Poor" and — ironically — be as dumb as bricks even if they're upper-class (ironic because its earliest members had been classically educated, and "Ku Klux" itself was inspired by the ancient Greek word for "circle").

Became this.

They almost always will have drawling accents, be hot-tempered, drop plenty of Cluster F Bombs, chanting "Kill N***s" and — ironically — be as dumb as bricks even if they're upper-class (ironic because its earliest members had been classically educated, and "Ku Klux" itself was inspired by the ancient Greek word for "circle").

An extreme misuse on top of being so censored that it’s hard to tell what word they’re even supposed to be saying, permission to revert?

SKREEEEEEEONK!
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#29: May 1st 2021 at 8:29:45 PM

[up]Saying the KKK has N-Word Privileges strikes me as more bizarre than applying Precision F-Strike to a Sir Swears-a-Lot character or thinking the last word of This Is for Emphasis, Bitch!'s name is the only important part.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 1st 2021 at 10:30:58 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#30: May 1st 2021 at 8:30:58 PM

I also feel like a good chunk of those tropes are NRELP... So yeah, burn it and revert it.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
GeneralGigan Godzilla from A New Empire Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Godzilla
#31: May 1st 2021 at 11:57:02 PM

[up] Done.

SKREEEEEEEONK!
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#32: May 3rd 2021 at 9:58:40 AM

I think the current name is decent, but Slur Privileges would cover the flexibility better. I can't think of anything else that isn't clunky.

I also like the idea of a trope that covers shocking swear usage as a supertrope to this, Country Matters, and Precision F-Strike.

Edited by mightymewtron on May 3rd 2021 at 12:58:47 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
nw09 Since: Apr, 2018
#33: May 3rd 2021 at 10:40:09 AM

Is "we're the only ones allowed to do it" necessary or is it okay to allow examples that don't mention that part?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#34: May 3rd 2021 at 10:41:36 AM

[up] I'd say that part's important, yeah.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
nw09 Since: Apr, 2018
#36: May 5th 2021 at 11:20:07 AM

So there would be like Self-Deprecation, except the individual doing it doesn't necessarily speak for their whole group. Should there be a trope like "Self-Deprecation, but for their group"?

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#37: May 5th 2021 at 7:41:50 PM

[up]It's not necessarily Self-Deprecation. The main point is that it refers to an offensive slur for a group (such as a racial slur, in the Trope Namer's case) not being considered offensive (or at least as offensive) when members of the group use it to refer to themselves. It's basically about groups "hijacking" terms that bigots use to refer to them and using them among themselves.

Edit: As noted after I originally added to this, reclaiming sounds like a better way to describe this than "hijacking", but I couldn't think of the right word at the time.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 5th 2021 at 9:47:23 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#38: May 5th 2021 at 7:43:15 PM

If anything, it's more akin to a group reclaiming a term.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#39: May 5th 2021 at 7:45:30 PM

[up]Yes, reclaiming is a good word to describe it. I couldn't think of a good way to describe it in just one word, so my explanation ended up being wordy (plus, I haven't been awake very long).

I got a rock for Halloween.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#40: May 5th 2021 at 8:05:07 PM

I have seen some examples along the lines of "we can say this, but it's not okay for others to say it," a sort of Double Standard regarding things like stereotypes, not just slurs. I think it's flexible enough to cover things like racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever jokes, not just slurs.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#41: May 5th 2021 at 9:55:51 PM

[up]I agree with what you said about trope flexibility, since one episode of South Park had Mr. Garrison claiming he can use homophobic slurs freely because he's gay.

Edit: It's already listed under N-Word Privileges on the episode's Recap page.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 5th 2021 at 11:56:43 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#42: May 5th 2021 at 9:56:16 PM

Makes sense to me.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
nw09 Since: Apr, 2018
#43: May 6th 2021 at 12:18:35 PM

So what about when the group makes jokes about themselves, but they don't say others aren't allowed to? Or if they don't have a problem with others doing it at all?

Edited by nw09 on May 6th 2021 at 12:19:10 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#44: May 6th 2021 at 12:33:32 PM

Then its not this trope. It isn't a privilege if everyone can do it.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
nw09 Since: Apr, 2018
#45: May 6th 2021 at 12:56:14 PM

What would it be then? Someone making jokes about their own group sounds like a trope.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#46: May 6th 2021 at 12:58:26 PM

I think something like Identity Self Deprecation would be tropeworthy. Like an affectionate equivalent of Boomerang Bigot.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#47: May 6th 2021 at 10:41:00 PM

[up](& previous posts) I don't think that is a split-worthy distinction. If the person is making jokes at their own group's expense and thinks it's ok, N-Word Privileges are implied.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#48: May 7th 2021 at 6:46:25 AM

Jeff Foxworthy has plenty of self-deprecating comedy based on an ethnic/cultural group, but Slur Privileges do not appear to be implied by them.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#49: May 7th 2021 at 8:26:27 AM

[up]The N-Word Privileges example on his main page looks low on context, but between that, his page's description, and the Lowest Common Denominator example on YMMV.Jeff Foxworthy, I'm assuming the implication is that it's considered acceptable for him to refer to white Southerners as rednecks since he's a white Southerner himself.

Edit: Dictionary.com's entry for "redneck" refers to the word as disparaging, so I think it still counts.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 7th 2021 at 10:36:25 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#50: May 11th 2021 at 3:50:48 PM

Perhaps it's time to fire up a crowner?

  • Rename N-Word Privileges
  • Expand to be about all derogatory words and stereotypes about the speaker's race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, socioeconomic class, and other groups.

Do we need an option for whether or not the "no one else can say this stuff except us" is a requirement, or to split off Identity Self Deprecation (name tbd)?

Creating Shocking Curse Word (name tbd) can be done independently, no?

SingleProposition: NWordPrivileges
18th May '21 12:24:13 PM

Crown Description:

N Word Privileges is misused for cases where group-specific slurs and insults are used without pointing out the "privilege" of those groups to say those words. Should it be renamed? If no, examples will be cleaned.

Total posts: 91
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