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mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#26: Mar 22nd 2021 at 6:30:54 PM

I'm willing to broaden it to include any pairing more popular than the ones intended in the narrative, as long as the character has some intended ship in canon.

I also feel like our current rule trying to boil it down to one ship per character is a bit silly and probably more contentious than allowing ships that are both very popular. I also don't love the whole "check every fanfic outlet to prove the ship is the most popular" thing since different websites might have different demographics and it's not easy when the ships are both very popular (for example, in South Park, both Stan/Kyle and Kyle/Cartman are super popular compared to any canon Kyle ship).

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#27: Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:25:22 PM

Yeah, I always found that rule silly too. To me, this trope was about ships being more popular than the canon/creator-preferred ship. It is possible for that to happen with multiple ships.

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#28: Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:49:03 PM

Broadening to "any ship preferred over creator/narrative-preferred" is fine I think. If the official couple is A/B, but both A/C and A/D is more popular, I don't see why they shouldn't both be listed, even if neither C or D have their own creator-preferred love interest.

Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#29: Mar 22nd 2021 at 7:59:05 PM

The current rules do list that multiple ships can be listed if they're about the same popularity wise, and while I'm not against, bare minimum, loosening that rule, I do wonder what would happen in fandoms where the canon pairing is really unpopular, so much so that there are lots of ships that would potentially qualify. Would multiple listings like that be allowed?

Honestly, the big issue with this trope in general is that shipping is so versatile and different between fandoms that it's hard to narrow things down to a specific ruleset.

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#30: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:06:15 PM

The rule that we should really narrow in on, IMO, is that the only ships worth listing are those for characters who have a canon romance. So those who have no ships in canon aren't worth listing as there's not much to compare them against.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#31: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:07:10 PM

Maybe a new title could be Fan Preferred Alternate Couple, to make it clear there needs to be an actual couple?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#32: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:32:50 PM

I would be willing to broaden it to multiple ships, so long as they are more popular than a creator preferred one.

[up] I like that for a new title.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:33:41 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#33: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:36:12 PM

It also says quite a lot if the Official Couple is so unpopular that it is overshadowed by pretty much every other possible pairing.

Edited by Adept on Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:37:58 PM

Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#34: Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:46:33 PM

Hm, alright, I see what you guys mean. And I think a title change like that could work.

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#35: Mar 22nd 2021 at 11:13:50 PM

I think Fan-Preferred Couple should not include Official Couple unless it's clear that the upgraded status was a late-development influenced by the fans.

For example, Zutara is Fan-Preferred Couple because it's popular despite the show's ironclad stamp of Kataraang as the Official Couple.

But Korrasami is only a Fan-Preferred Couple prior to Season 3 giving a official Relationship Upgrade.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#36: Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:45:26 AM

I think Alternate Fan Preferred Couple might flow better. Or something like Preferred Alternate Ship?

TBH I don't think the current name is that bad, and the vague description and unclear standards is probably worth focusing on more than a rename.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Tenebrika she/her (Less Newbie) Relationship Status: Not war
she/her
#37: Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:49:55 AM

[up]Yes. The current description seems to be more about a generally popular non-canon ship; there being an Official Couple is only mentioned in passing and isn't stressed as a key requirement.

Edited by Tenebrika on Mar 23rd 2021 at 11:45:49 PM

TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
#38: Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:50:40 AM

[up][up][up] The issue with that example is that Korrasami didn't get seriously popular (it was definitely less popular than Makorra and Masami) until the creators started deliberately teasing it in Season 3. But no one knew the teasing was deliberate until the end of season 4.

Korrasami is an interesting case because it looked like a Fan-Preferred Couple while the show was airing, but it's popularity was the creators' intended reaction.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Mar 23rd 2021 at 4:52:45 AM

idonom from wouldn't you like to know, weatherboy Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#40: Mar 23rd 2021 at 8:49:56 AM

Yeah. The description is the main problem in my opinion. It's the main thing leading to the misuse.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 23rd 2021 at 10:52:52 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41: Mar 23rd 2021 at 9:30:10 AM

Please hold off on the crowner. The thread has only been open for a day; we should give ourselves some more time to tease out problems and suggest solutions. Three days is the minimum.

So far:

  • I like the idea of broadening to include multiple ships per character.
  • And excluding works that don't have a single 'canon' pairing.
  • I am not sure how to go about proving they are less popular than the main OTP.
  • I'd like a bit more discussion on 'temporary' examples and pairings that become canon at the very end. Consider the following scenarios:
    • Can A/B be FPC in season 1 if they become canon in season 2 and stay together all throughout?
    • What about if A/B were together from season 1-3, abruptly break up, and A dates C for the rest of the show? Can they be FPC then?
    • What if A/B and A/C were both teased, but A/C becomes canon at the very last minute? Can A/B only be declared FPC at the end of the work and afterwards?

Regarding superhero comics as brought up earlier, they are their own separate beast because Superheroes Stay Single and each creator has their favorite couple. Maybe we can trim 'general' superhero comic examples and restricting these to specific runs or works (eg. listing Batman/Catwoman by itself feels janky [either because Bruce is generally emotionally unavailable or because they recently had a wedding arc] but if there was a run where, say, Batman married Wonder Woman and fans still wanted him with Catwoman, that can go on that specific run's entry).

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 23rd 2021 at 11:34:06 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#42: Mar 23rd 2021 at 9:50:14 AM

I am not against them. But for instance Wally West's literally list their his wife. Certain runs are fine. Like say MJ/Peter's time before they got together and he was in love with Gwen Stacy. Or the New 52 where Clark was with Diana, but fans wanted him with Lois.

I don't think we should need to have to supply evidence. However, if you list one and I look and can't find it much about on tumblr, twitter, reddit, a fan pole, most fanfic/fan art sites, or really anything much online about it. Or even like say Little Woman where their was so much fan mail the creator commented. And I do find that the canon one has a bigger impact, then it doesn't look good. Unfortunately, a lot of those are listed, where it seems it's more just the troper's opinion, then the whole fandoms.

As for your examples.

1) Sure. So long as they had a love interest in season 1, and it was clear that was the main focus of said season.

2) Yes.

3) I think so. It depends on if they are more popular.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 23rd 2021 at 11:52:37 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#43: Mar 23rd 2021 at 9:56:00 AM

Checking would be helpful, but I think most of the misuse comes from people who simply don't know what the trope entails and think any ship with an unexpectedly large fandom including a few crack ships that took off fits the bill. Clarifying what the trope means by itself and pruning later wicks will definitely help a lot among future editors.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#44: Mar 23rd 2021 at 12:30:01 PM

I'm personally fine with taking the example's word for it that they are more popular than the canon ship, but if they just mention that a pairing is popular, I'm not going to do research and check for it, I will take out the ZCE powerhose. tongue Wick cleaning is hard enough as is.

Renaming wouldn't be a bad idea either, since Fan-Preferred Couple doesn't make it clear that it's preferred over a canon ship (vs. the other equally noncanon ship they're in a ship war with). Consideration for a rename:

Found in 2869 articles, excluding discussions.
Since January 1, 2012 this article has brought 31,661 people to the wiki from non-search engine links.

Not a disgustingly big number, but might take a while.

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 23rd 2021 at 2:30:21 PM

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#45: Mar 23rd 2021 at 12:39:54 PM

Eh, we've dewicked bigger.

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Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#46: Mar 23rd 2021 at 12:50:51 PM

I have confidence that we can do that.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#47: Mar 23rd 2021 at 12:59:40 PM

Honestly, I thought there'd be more wicks than that. 2-3k isn't too bad and we've already fixed a bunch of them as is.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#48: Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:04:06 PM

Definitely.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
idonom from wouldn't you like to know, weatherboy Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#49: Mar 23rd 2021 at 6:51:35 PM

Oh, I didn't know it was only open for a day (I was just looking at the date of the initial post)

Y'ALL JUST GOT SHREKT
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#50: Mar 24th 2021 at 1:12:53 AM

I am not convinced of a rename if we want to broaden it. Fan-Preferred Couple implies that it's something fans prefer over actual canon.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

PageAction: FanPreferredCoupleNew
29th Mar '21 10:52:20 PM

Crown Description:

Fan Preferred Couple is too narrow and faces a misuse problem where tropers list it for official/canon couples, despite the trope being about noncanon couples that the fans like. What should be done to fix it?

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