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Ordeaux26 from Canada Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Apr 3rd 2021 at 8:26:13 AM

If someone else wants to make a crowned that's fine I was just giving my opinion, I don't even know how to make one anyway.

DreamWorks MB's
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere
Planeswalker
Apr 3rd 2021 at 2:06:39 PM

I'd rather expand this trope and make a newly named trope for only Evil Overlords. The name as is is perfect for a "x character is hated by everyone" trope, and Hate Sink really isn't the same as that (Hate Sink is for deliberately writing a character to be hated by the audience).

Oissu!
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Apr 3rd 2021 at 3:37:03 PM

Here is the crowner.

Because we have had issues with consensus for conditional items before (eg. "If X, then Y" gets consensus but "X" does not), the 'expand ZPAR to include all hatred' does not say to create a new trope for the ruler examples; we can decide on that later if it gets consensus. I am not sure if those who said to just expand the thing were also in favor of splitting that off.

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 3rd 2021 at 5:37:34 AM

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
Ordeaux26 from Canada Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Apr 5th 2021 at 1:28:13 PM

Why has the crowner not been hooked could a mod please hook this crowner

DreamWorks MB's
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Apr 5th 2021 at 1:36:12 PM

[up]Have you hollered? It was probably overlooked over the weekend, especially since yesterday was a holiday.

"An ear for an ear makes it hard to hear." —Gaston (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 5th 2021 at 1:44:28 PM

I have an issue with voting for both expand and rename with the same crowner. There's also an option that says "don't expand, and make a new trope", but it also assumes that expanding is acceptable. How about the following options instead?

ZPAR is currently limited to national leaders being disliked. It has suffered misuse for more than just national-level leadership. Names will be decided with a different crowner, this is to identify which concepts are tropeable. If more than one achieves consensus, a new trope will be created.
  1. A trope for national leaders being hated by their citizens.
  2. A trope for authority figures being hated by their subordinates (encompasses 1).
  3. A trope for characters being hated by everyone (encompasses 1 and 2).

Edited by crazysamaritan on Apr 5th 2021 at 4:47:08 AM

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
WarJay77 Some like it hot from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Some like it hot
Apr 5th 2021 at 1:48:03 PM

The issue is that we all seem to agree on both concepts being tropeworthy; the debate is about if one trope should cover both, or if the misuse should be split off.

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Ordeaux26 from Canada Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Apr 5th 2021 at 2:13:41 PM

I still think this trope should be expanded to cover any character being hated by everyone it would makes things much easier and simpler rather than this overcomplicated making two tropes stuff.

DreamWorks MB's
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Apr 5th 2021 at 2:40:38 PM

Okay, so repeating your point over and over is not going to get it consensus, a crowner will.

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
Apr 5th 2021 at 2:51:13 PM

[up][up][up][up] Does anyone here believe that 1, 2, and 3 aren't all tropable? Assume that all three are separate tropes.

We could still go through with that crowner and then decide how many tropes we want / where the concepts go.

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Apr 5th 2021 at 2:52:35 PM

Not sure I understand the reasoning for "make a new trope for the current definition" not being a crowner option. Is that the same as rename?

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Apr 5th 2021 at 2:53:06 PM

[up]x6 I'd be fine using those options instead. It's easier to keep track of than the original crowner's options.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 5th 2021 at 4:53:33 AM

"An ear for an ear makes it hard to hear." —Gaston (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
WarJay77 Some like it hot from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Some like it hot
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:04:32 PM

My concern is, what do the options actually mean? If people vote that both ideas a tropeworthy, is the trope being expanded to cover the whole range? Or are we voting on what tropes to have?

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GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:08:59 PM

[up]Option 2 includes examples covered by option 1, and option 3 includes examples covered by both option 1 and option 2. If anything other than option 3 has the most consensus, the other options will be sent to TLP if they're still within consensus range.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 5th 2021 at 5:11:26 AM

"An ear for an ear makes it hard to hear." —Gaston (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
WarJay77 Some like it hot from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Some like it hot
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:11:30 PM

That didn't answer my question, mate.

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crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:12:09 PM

Which tropes to have. The created crowner has two options that, if both voted, can be interpreted in different ways:

  • Expand to cover all instances of authority figures being hated by their subjects/subordinates
  • Keep the scope of 0% Approval Rating to rulers/authority figures and create a new trope to cover instances of characters being hated by everyone
This could mean "all three are tropes" or it could mean that only 2 & 3 are tropes. The one that I proposed isn't asking names/expanding, just which ones are valid tropes.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
WarJay77 Some like it hot from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Some like it hot
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:14:00 PM

Yeah, it's the "open to interpretation" part that's making me nervous. I don't want people to vote without understanding what the crowner is actually for.

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GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:15:32 PM

[up][up][up]Were you talking about the originally proposed crowner or crazysamaritan's proposal? I was talking about the latter in my previous post, since I think it's easier to interpret.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 5th 2021 at 5:15:46 AM

"An ear for an ear makes it hard to hear." —Gaston (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
WarJay77 Some like it hot from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Some like it hot
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:17:20 PM

[up]Crazy's. I find it more confusing for the reasons stated [up][up].

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GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:19:34 PM

[up]The option with the most consensus would decide how to define 0% Approval Rating's scope. The rest, if they have consensus, will be sent to TLP.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 5th 2021 at 5:20:31 AM

"An ear for an ear makes it hard to hear." —Gaston (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
WarJay77 Some like it hot from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Some like it hot
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:22:38 PM

Are you sure? That's not what Crazy themselves said, and this is why I'm not a fan of how open-ended this crowner is. And if its just to figure out whats tropeworthy, I don't think that's even up for debate right now since nobody seems to think the concepts aren't tropeworthy.

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GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:24:41 PM

It could be that I misinterpreted it slightly since I'm currently sick and worn out. That said, I think using those three options to decide how to define 0% Approval Rating's scope would be a good idea.

"An ear for an ear makes it hard to hear." —Gaston (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:26:59 PM

My concern is, what do the options actually mean? [...]
The crowner decides what's tropeworthy. Whichever has consensus then gets a crowner for which of them 0% Approval Rating will cover and which of them get(s) sent to TLP/salvage yard.

GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:28:27 PM

[up]I'd prefer doing that instead of using the original crowner.

"An ear for an ear makes it hard to hear." —Gaston (Animal Crossing: New Horizons)
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Apr 5th 2021 at 3:29:36 PM

No, what I said was that this crowner isn't clear on if all three are tropeworthy. There is no clear way to interpret all three options having their own article, and with "rename" as an option, it isn't clear which would have what name. So, first order of business, vote on which concepts are tropeworthy. Second order (different crowner), what happens to the name ZPAR, then additional names as needed.


Ninja'd by ~Tabs.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Apr 5th 2021 at 6:31:51 AM

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

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