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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#201: May 29th 2021 at 1:36:24 AM

I get the feeling that Darth Zannah would get a major adaptational heroism. The series would start at her meeting Bane, skipping Bane's time at the sith academy, and emphasis that Bane's upbringing made her this way, glossing over that Zannah came to him.

And portray the Jedi as weak, incompetent, and looking down at the non-force users of the galaxy.

But if they somehow get Mark Hamill to play Bane again, and Daisy Ridley Zannah, it might at least be fun to watch.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 29th 2021 at 4:38:32 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#202: May 29th 2021 at 1:40:14 AM

Yup definitely what Disney would do, don't forget her becoming a girlboss.

Its very "feminist" after all.

Edited by slimcoder on May 29th 2021 at 1:42:45 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#203: May 29th 2021 at 1:45:49 AM

Zannah is pretty fun in a sheer evil sort of way, like when she utterly tortures a rando woman for banging the guy she likes.

And not just torture, but drove her insane in a And I Must Scream sort of way.

And that's not even mentioning the shit Darth Bane does.

So no, I don't think we should expect to see a Darth Bane adaptation. But since Darth Vader comics are super popular, I do think we can expect a dive into Sith lore eventually.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 29th 2021 at 4:46:04 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#204: May 29th 2021 at 1:47:32 AM

To Disney's credit somewhat they don't dial down on how fucking awful Darth Vader is.

Though they did for Kylo Ren but thats a different story.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#205: May 29th 2021 at 1:49:10 AM

Because Kylo Ren is attractive and they gotta keep him sympathetic.

I mean he gets a shirtless cover on one of the comics.

Because the attractive villains are the ones who get the sympathy treatment.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#206: May 29th 2021 at 1:53:51 AM

That is sadly true.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#207: May 29th 2021 at 3:27:25 AM

Disney also didn't have to do much to tone down Darth Vader.

I'd argue the original movies already did that by redeeming him for a single decision.

"Yeah, you might be the right hand of Space Fascist Emperor who's murdered billions of people over the last few decades and blown up at least three planets, but you saved the son you chopped the hand off of so I guess you're redeemed and a good guy now. Let's just forget that time you murdered a room full of children."

I've softened to Star Wars over the years. But, no, Darth Vader doesn't get redemption because he saved his son. He did not actually repent for any of his deeds and ruin he caused. Just that his boss hurt his son.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#208: May 29th 2021 at 3:32:24 AM

Well that's why the story kills him immediately after. It's the easiest out for a villain's forgiveness without actually fixing much. Same with Kylo, who arguably didn't even do anything he wasn't already going to do while evil. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 29th 2021 at 3:38:11 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#209: May 29th 2021 at 3:35:36 AM

The important distinction is that Vader is cool while Kylo just sucks ass.

He just sucks so much ass as a character that a redemption is just another piece of shit on the crap-ton pile that is his character.

And even then Vader is at least redeemed only to his son who is at least satisfied that he got through to him in the end. The rest of the galaxy including his own daughter remembers him as the monster he was.

Edited by slimcoder on May 29th 2021 at 3:36:54 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#210: May 29th 2021 at 3:45:26 AM

Anakin’s redemption is not about getting off scott-free for his crimes. It’s about doing one last good deed before it’s too late and tells everyone it’s never too late to make amends, even if the world will never forgive you. In fact, the belief that Vader held was that it’s too late for him to change back which itself is a deluded lie for Vader to continue committing evil deeds.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#211: May 29th 2021 at 7:12:00 AM

It's also worth noting that the story of Anakin's redemption isn't about Anakin. It's about Luke. Anakin redeeming himself is the climax of Luke's character journey, showing that the faith he has that there is another way is justified, and allowing him to go on to the rest of his life content that he transcended yadda yadda yadda. The point in that moment wasn't to show that Vader was absolved for all the awful, awful things he did before that point, but to show that Luke was right about him having just enough good in him to do the right thing where it counts. He comes back as a ghost because its a good cap for Luke's story to see his father one last time as he originally was, and for Luke to know that he was responsible for that.

All the recontextualizing about how the whole story was actually all about Anakin came later, and that's also where the idea that "in killing the Emperor, Anakin made up for the child murder / genocide / etc" is what that scene is trying to say comes from.

Speaking of:

I'm really wondering what would happen if Disney were to sign off on an adaptation of the Darth Bane novels from Star Wars.

They could get Mark Hamill to voice him.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 29th 2021 at 7:15:38 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#212: May 29th 2021 at 7:26:22 AM

That's why Lucas really should not have tried to make the OT about Anakin instead of Luke.

But back on topic, besides Emma Thompson, what else does this movie have going on for it?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#213: May 29th 2021 at 7:27:14 AM

I don't understand why people worry that Bane and Zannah suffer from Adaptive Heroism, when so far the Siths of the new expanded universe are worse than those of Legends.

In Legends the Siths could be anti-villains, and even genuinely care for the well-being of the empire. (Examples: Darth Marr, Revan, Lana Beniko and Darth Nox/Imperius)

Qualities that do not exist in the expanded universe.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on May 29th 2021 at 7:29:29 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#214: May 29th 2021 at 7:29:00 AM

[up][up] People seem to really like the fashion and the whole chaotic, punk thing the movie has going for it.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#215: May 29th 2021 at 7:29:00 AM

Seems the performances are good. Same with the fashion at least according to wikipedia

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#216: May 29th 2021 at 7:44:00 AM

Adding to the Star Wars analogy.

Phasma got an Expanded Universe Backstory showing us that Phasma is an irredeemable monster even more evil than Kylo and Hux, so I don't think Disney is necessarily against having irredeemable female villains.

It will be time to wait for the Acolyte, to know how Disney's Lucas-Film handles a villain protagonist in a Live Action.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on May 29th 2021 at 7:45:07 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#217: May 29th 2021 at 7:59:46 AM

Man, this is sure is a good Star Wars thread to talk about Star Wars.

Star Wars.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#218: May 29th 2021 at 8:03:44 AM

We are using them as analogies.

Anyway, I don't understand why people think that Cruella is one of the baddest Disney villains who is beyond redemption.

Sure, she wanted to kill puppies but she is easily overshadowed by other villains like Frollo or Scar.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on May 29th 2021 at 8:06:07 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#219: May 29th 2021 at 8:07:37 AM

I guess it's due to the puppies being creatures that the audience is trained to empathize with. Yeah they're dogs, but we hear them talk, laugh, etc. All the things humans do.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#220: May 29th 2021 at 8:11:52 AM

But from an unbiased point of view, her evil actions are easily overshadowed by villains who tried to kill other people. (or in Frollo's case, do an ethnic purge)

Edited by JoLuRo075 on May 29th 2021 at 8:12:53 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#221: May 29th 2021 at 8:14:50 AM

Fair enough. I guess part of this is due to fear of the precedent it sets. Cruella isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things but some might be worried Disney will pull something like this with Frollo.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#222: May 29th 2021 at 8:17:32 AM

Or Mother Gothel.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#223: May 29th 2021 at 8:28:48 AM

I feel like Yzma is ridiculously easy to make an apologia movie for. Just don't make her cartoonishly evil like she is in the movie and her plight is relatable as hell.

The legend has returned.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#224: May 29th 2021 at 8:29:10 AM

They could give Frollo his sympathetic-ish backstory from the book I guess?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#225: May 29th 2021 at 8:32:44 AM

[up][up]I guess we have to suck the fun out of every Disney villain then. sad

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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