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Disney's Cruella

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Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#226: May 29th 2021 at 8:41:35 AM

Kuzco is an objectively bad emperor, but the person who has the least right to complain about that is the person who raised him to be a bad emperor.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#227: May 29th 2021 at 9:29:08 AM

They could give Frollo his sympathetic-ish backstory from the book I guess?

I'm gonna be honest, the last character who needs a sympathetic backstory is the genocidal, sexist piece of shit that is Disney's version of Frollo. That's just all kinds of nope.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#228: May 29th 2021 at 9:35:23 AM

Disney has proven to be really tone-deaf sometimes. So, knock on wood.

Wake me up at your own risk.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#229: May 29th 2021 at 10:32:17 AM

I heard the musical tried to make Frollo more sympathetic, albeit without trying to whitewash or excuse his crimes.

Then again, very tricky tightrope to walk with a character like that. Especially in this day and age.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#230: May 29th 2021 at 10:39:01 AM

One issue I like to point out is Cruella's hair.

From the trailers I saw, I initially assumed that Estella's natural hair was red and the combination of hair and white was dyed. But in the movie, her real hair is black and white, while red is dyed.

That may represent that Cruella was always Estella's real personality. Or maybe I'm giving too much importance to hair color.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on May 29th 2021 at 10:40:22 AM

BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#231: May 29th 2021 at 10:54:28 AM

The woman who wants a coat made of puppies is not really less appropriate a hero than the woman who placed a death curse on a baby as revenge for not being invited to a party.

I'd rank Frollo as the the single least appropriate villain to try to make sympathetic. I think Gaston would also be a terrible candidate, not because he's among the most vile but because "Gaston saw himself as the hero" is not at all a subversive take.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#232: May 29th 2021 at 11:13:47 AM

Man, we’ve already got a canonically sympathetic Disney villain. His name is John Silver.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#233: May 29th 2021 at 11:21:47 AM

People tend to categorize different types of motives by evilness, as well. Cruella is typically perceived as more evil than the others not simply because she is going after puppies, but because her motives are entirely petty.

If anything, it’s easy to perceive Cruella’s actions as eviller because of the small scale, not in spite of it. She isn’t doing what she does for lofty goals that matter, isn’t bandying over the gates of a whole city or ideology or such, isn’t making a personal dig against a king or a country. She’s kicking off the plot simply because she wanted something, someone told her she couldn’t have it, and she went ballistic, which is a much more raw and overtly selfish a motive because of how needless it is. At that to the fact that her victims are mentally anthropomorphized children and there you go.

There’s also the fact that Cruella is a significantly more physical threat than most Disney villains. We don’t delve much into who she is and why she does what she does (arguably, the animated sequel trying to do so is part of why she was weaker as a villain in that movie). She’s also a Knight of Cerebus, which is something people tend to forget: she’s not particularly funny or lighthearted, she’s not even that campy (except when she first appears) in comparison to Maleficent, and things boost in serious when she shows up to supplement Horace and Jasper. She’s only really present in the story in the role of an abductor, so that’s all people see of her.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 29th 2021 at 11:25:45 AM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#234: May 29th 2021 at 11:44:25 AM

When does Chernabog get his sympathetic origin story?

BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#235: May 29th 2021 at 11:54:59 AM

I've said before that instead of making a sequel to Maleficient they should have made a recursive retelling framing King Stefan as the good guy. Who's the villain in Cruella? What would their sympathetic origin story look like?

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#236: May 29th 2021 at 12:03:37 PM

Cruella is seen as super evil because Americans place WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much value on a dog's life.

When it comes down to it, she's no better than the real life CE Os who greenlight similar things with animals that are actually endangered.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#237: May 29th 2021 at 12:05:10 PM

She is a corporate jerk. That makes her a villain by default. The fact that she goes out of her way to steal pets of people who refused her makes her oddly more hands-on and look a lot pettier.

Edited by Blueace on May 29th 2021 at 3:06:18 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#238: May 29th 2021 at 12:12:22 PM

> When does Chernabog get his sympathetic origin story?

all he wanted to do was celebrate the night but noooo

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#239: May 29th 2021 at 12:39:34 PM

I feel like Edgar from The Aristocats is a much more sympathetic would-be animal murderer because by legal right, that mansion should have gone to him, but no, funny animal hijinks must ensue.

The legend has returned.
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#240: May 29th 2021 at 12:51:41 PM

Which is weird because you'd think he'd live with the cats.

Also while I don't disagree about most people seeing Cruella as "eviler" because "think of the doggies!", she definitely isn't a slouch. She is raw, she is grounded, and she is petty.

Edited by Ookamikun on May 30th 2021 at 3:53:13 AM

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#241: May 29th 2021 at 1:17:37 PM

First: no friggin' clue why anyone would think caring a lot about dogs is an American thing, especially given that Cruella is a character from British literature. Like, do you think that puppy kickers in other country's works are celebrated?

Second: a lot of people's perceptions about Cruella probably stem from the fact that her "The Villain Sucks" Song is the most iconic part of the movie, and it's nothing but two minutes of creative ways to say that she's completely heartless and awful.

Third: Jerks Are Worse Than Villains, so a rich, obnoxious, entitled lady who shits on those weaker than her and stabs her alleged friend in the back for petty reasons hits all the buttons even without her being a thief and an animal abuser.

Fourth: Her name is "Cruella de Vil." I mean, is anyone hearing that and expecting nuance and sympathy?

Edited by IniuriaTalis on May 29th 2021 at 4:18:48 AM

Does anyone actually read these?
firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#242: May 29th 2021 at 1:21:01 PM

In other words, Cruella is a Karen who takes her jackassery to villainous levels. I am calling her that because as many people pointed out she is an entitled asshole who goes to any length to get what she wants and belittles everyone around her.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#243: May 29th 2021 at 1:28:58 PM

Hey at least Joker started out from a very low social class and suffered legitimate problems.

Cruella is basically just your run of the mill rich asshole, her being a woman doesn’t change that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#244: May 29th 2021 at 1:59:15 PM

Just saw the movie, thought it was alright.

Question though: If nobody knew who Cruella was or where she lived, then how did the press get the info that she "died" in that fire? Especially since her body was removed before firefighters arrived on the scene.

Like creepy stories? Check out my book!
Bornstellar Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#245: May 29th 2021 at 2:32:02 PM

Pretty sure the Baroness leaked it to the press, as she mentioned that she would put the blame on Jasper and Horace.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#246: May 29th 2021 at 2:53:30 PM

Just watched the film.

This was shockingly bad on a level I was not ready for.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#247: May 29th 2021 at 3:05:46 PM

My guess is this film is purposefully bad because reasons

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#248: May 29th 2021 at 3:13:49 PM

I hate to ask the obvious question, but is it like Joker?

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Bornstellar Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#249: May 29th 2021 at 3:25:20 PM

[up]Not really While Joker was about a man being screwed over by the world around and going mad over it, Cruella is a much more personal film focusing on the rivalry of the two leads. Its a very revenge focused film.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#250: May 29th 2021 at 3:46:49 PM

There are elements of a girlboss Joker thing. Moreso in the sense of "supervillain origin that thinks its smarter than it really is" and both having very muddled class warfare themes in the background. But they kind of end up in reverse, with Joker triggering a very unclear proletariat revolution of some kind and Cruella basically becoming the upper class she fought against. In both cases the class warfare resolution is a bit muddled on whether that was a really good thing or not (though Cruella leans more to "this was a great thing"), because either of the film's intended ambiguous message or out of sheer incompetence depending on whether you liked the film or not.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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