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Unclear Description: Jail Bait

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1: Feb 13th 2021 at 12:11:14 PM

Currently, the trope description spends a lot of time talking about the legal intricacies of age of consent laws (while missing that often Younger Than They Look is a valid legal defence...) but it doesn't actually specify what the trope is.

Is it simply "teenager, as a sex object?", "teen-adult relationships portrayed as inappropriate", or something around these lines? Is Younger Than They Look a requirement? Wikipedia's page on it sort of implies the latter.

FWIW, while I am mostly complaining about the description and not about any misuse I've put a wick check down here:

    Indexes (2) 
    Rejecting an underage relationship (13) 
    Reference to age of consent laws (with some Hollywood Law) (3) 
    Reference to questionable adult-teen relationship (1) 
  • Love Makes You Evil
    • Lifetime movie Stalked At 17 flirts between this and Love Makes You Crazy. Chad, a twenty-two-year-old college student, becomes obsessed with his sixteen/seventeen-year-old girlfriend, Angela, when she reveals that she's pregnant. When Angela's parents find out about her pregnancy and the father of their grandchild, they try to create some distance. This doesn't set well for Chad as he starts to stalk them and tries getting in contact with them. His Yandere levels go through the roof when he tries attacking Angela's father for getting a restraining order against him. He even turns to his mother, who was recently released from prison, for help on kidnapping Angela and their newborn son so that they can be a family together.
    Seems like No Yay (10) 
  • Archie Comics
    • Jail Bait: Somewhat has unfortunate implications in the sense that grown men have discussed how hot Betty and Veronica are for years, but in every incarnation, they're never older than 17. At least they're drawn as busty, curvy grown women and not obviously meant as pedo-bait.note  Made a bit understandable in the case of people who grew up reading the comics. Betty and Veronica started out as a Precocious Crush for many young boys.
  • Über
    • Jailbait: After the reveal that Siegfried was actually 14 years old despite looking like a grown man because of his enhancements, it makes Sieglinde's shame about having sex with him (because he was the only candidate available who wouldn't be killed by her super strength) even more understandable.
  • Bella Dancerella
    • Jail Bait: Obviously not invoked on the DVD, but the number of men searching to find out who "Bella" really was is evident in searching online for "Bella Dancerella Actress Name".
      • One Yahoo Questions asks "What is Bella Dancerella's real name?" the only person who answered said "Pervert."
  • Hick
    • Jail Bait: Luli, again. To disturbing levels. Basically, we have a character who spends the entire movie oozing sexuality, from her sultry demeanor, her propensity to dress like a backwoods hooker to her shameless manipulation of men much older than she. If she was in her twenties, it would be sexy on a Sharon-Stone-in-Basic Instinct level. But she's 13 and doesn't look any older. To say it makes your skin crawl is an understatement (it might not help that Chloë Grace Moretz's mother is one of the producers).
  • Fridge.Victorious
    • In the episode "Terror on Cupcake Street" Tori goes out to look for help after their parade float breaks down. She runs across a group of tough looking men in a harsh neighborhood. Although nothing happens, this troper found the entire scene rather disturbing considering the possibilities of what could have occurred to a young girl alone in an LA neighborhood at night, dressed in footie-pajamas no less.
  • 18 Again
    • Unrequited Love: Jasung is attracted to Shi-ah and actually confesses to her but she rejects him. Although it is highly understandable since it does not make sense for anyonenote  to date someone who used to viciously bully their brother and have talked shit about their mom.
      • A less serious example is Ae-rin with Wooyoung, however, unrequited or not, it wouldn't have worked either way due to Wooyoung being a minor, the age gap between them and her finding out that he is actually Daeyoung, the husband of her best friend.
  • The Other Two
    • Jail Bait: Chase is only 13 when he becomes a tween heartthrob and is often subjected to the attentions of older, creepy fans. He is put in a music video that contains suggestive dancing, and he pretends to be in a relationship with a fellow tween star.
  • WMG.Crush Crush
  • YMMV.Love Live Sunshine
  • YMMV.Persona3
    Somewhere between No Yay and Younger Than They Look (1) 
  • The Witch's House
    • Jail Bait: Viola looks rather too well-endowed for a 13-year old girl as shown in the cover art at the top of this page.
    Somewhere between No Yay and neutral reference to teen-adult relationship (2) 
  • Rurouni Kenshin
    • Age-Gap Romance: With Kenshin being 28, and Kaoru being 17 it's almost Jail Bait for Kenshin in a modern sense. However since this based in the late 1870s when older men married younger women more commonly it's a normal relationship for that time period. Also, they don't get married until she's at least 18 and wait for her to be about 19 or 20 before she has their son.
  • Memes.Love Live
    • Like the rest of the Anime/Manga Token Mini-Moe characters, and from all of the Aqours members: Ruby of ALL the first years is extremely infamous for having a tendency for being treated as an instant jailbait due to her childlike persona, regardless if she’s a child or a first year. This ultimately resulted on the fans portraying her as a girl with an "extremely heavy-handed" protection from any perverted male fans (Which is caused by Dia herself, but they would occasionally include her as the target due to her "Sis-con" tendencies), which is accompanied with response pictures or gifs of Police with/without their cars or the SWAT Team storming.note 
    Just a teen-adult relationship (3) 
  • Quills
    • Jail Bait: Dr. Royer-Collard, who is in his fifties, marries Simone, a girl of 15, which becomes fodder for a play that the Marquis puts on at the asylum. The whole business stops being funny when the doctor rapes her in their bed.
  • Waiting...
    • Jail Bait: Natasha, who is pursued by Monty even though she's only 17.
  • Radar.Victorious
    • An attractive paramedic asks Beck if he's in college (i.e. of legal age) yet.
    Woman Paramedic: (To Beck) "Hey, you in college yet?"
    Jade: "Bye!"
    Younger Than They Look (1) 
    Reference to underage sexuality (1) 
    Talking about children/teens (3) 
    Administrivia/Zero Context Example or unexplained link (7) 
    One instance ZCE, another rejecting such a relationship (1) 
  • Crossed
    • Jailbait:
      • Roshan of "Wish You Were Here" is the fifteen-year old daughter of the only Muslim family on the island. She's also very sexually active, and flashes Shaky at one point. Despite being tempted, Shaky doesn't follow up on her come-ons, partially out of fear of her strict father, partially because her age makes him uncomfortable.
      • Interestingly, Roshan's mother is fully aware of her daughter's behavior, but she apparently tolerates it and keeps it a secret from her husband.
      • Ashley and Ashlynne, the identical twin sisters in Homo Superior, also qualify as this.

Numerous references, some of which may fall under "rejecting an underage relationship"

    What's a "rap sheet"? (1) 
  • Funny.The Spoony Experiment
    • Spoony says that if he hit (Rikku's) Jail Bait ass, he'd have a rap sheet, leading to:
      Spoony: Rikku has a list. And it's creepy. And if I hit that Jail Bait ass, I'd have a list too. It's called a rap sheet.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Feb 21st 2021 at 11:46:48 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2: Mar 11th 2021 at 4:37:56 AM

Opening since we now have closed a few TRS threads, and pinging ~MacronNotes as she was interested in making a thread on this trope as well.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#3: Mar 11th 2021 at 8:10:15 AM

Note that we had a previous discussion where overly-detailed attention to potential legal issues was a problem because it obscured the trope of Jail Bait Wait. I'm not surprised that much of the same misuse is demonstrated here. Based on the wicks, the page isn't certain what the trope is supposed to be. I was expecting "character gets in trouble for dating an underage character", while "character avoids a relationship due to the other person being underage" is a sort of lampshaded or invoked aversion of the trope.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#4: Mar 11th 2021 at 12:07:05 PM

Yeah, it would make much more sense if the trope was “a character gets in trouble because they are in a relationship with an underage character (or someone who looks underage)” as that’s what the term jailbait alludes to anyways. The trope is bogged down with real life legal stuff that doesn’t matter when it comes to fictional portrayals like Jailbait Wait was.so we definitely have to hone in on a clear definition for this trope.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 11th 2021 at 12:15:41 PM

Macron's notes
WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#6: Mar 11th 2021 at 5:17:39 PM

A "Rap sheet" is a slang term for your legal arrest record or list of times. The implication in that last example is that the character would be in a lot of legal trouble for having a list of hot underage girls.

I think crazysamaritan's definition seems reasonable, though "jailbait" is also often used in real life to mean a hot underage girl.

Edited by naturalironist on Mar 11th 2021 at 8:18:50 AM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#8: Mar 11th 2021 at 11:40:39 PM

The problem I see with “a character gets in trouble because they are in a relationship with an underage character (or someone who looks underage)” is that most of the examples are about such relationships being perceived as bad, not about someone landing in trouble for pursuing them.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#9: Mar 12th 2021 at 1:06:32 AM

[up] So are those particular examples more fit for Age-Gap Romance played for drama?

As far as I'm aware, the term "Jailbait" on the internet just means "attractive underage girl", which is chairs. If the trope is meant to be something more specific, then I think it needs a rename.

Edited by Spark9 on Mar 12th 2021 at 1:09:11 AM

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#10: Mar 12th 2021 at 4:21:22 PM

...while "character avoids a relationship due to the other person being underage" is a sort of lampshaded or invoked aversion of the trope.
I'd call it Defied Jail Bait.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#11: Mar 12th 2021 at 4:34:29 PM

My main concern is [up][up]: the definition of jailbait everywhere else is “hot underage girl”. It may be more appropriate to turn Jail Bait into a definition only or fanspeak page and move “negative perceptions of relationships with underage character” elsewhere.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#12: Mar 12th 2021 at 4:35:13 PM

[up][up]That's it! Most of the wicks (Rejecting an underage relationship or No Yay) are falling under that category.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Mar 12th 2021 at 7:35:33 AM

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#13: Mar 12th 2021 at 5:01:36 PM

I don’t know about turning Jailbait into a definition only page (doesn’t sound like something that’s needed). I would prefer turning it out into a disambiguation (if that’s possible) if “ negative perceptions of relationships with a underage character” is going to be moved into its own trope.

Macron's notes
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#14: Mar 12th 2021 at 6:06:42 PM

Turning it into a disambiguation page sounds good if we already have multiple tropes related to the concept.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#15: Mar 12th 2021 at 10:09:07 PM

I don’t think we have a trope for teenage girls as Forbidden Fruit. Age-Gap Romance, sure, but this is so common I don’t see why it shouldn’t be separate.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#16: Mar 13th 2021 at 2:46:39 AM

Surprisingly, we don't seem to have a character trope for an underage The Tease. At least the disambig Lolita doesn't mention one. Isn't that the slot where Jail Bait should come in?

Edited by eroock on Mar 13th 2021 at 2:47:19 AM

Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#17: Mar 13th 2021 at 3:52:22 AM

[up] What about Fille Fatale?

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#18: Mar 16th 2021 at 2:13:43 AM

I dunno, it doesn't seem like Jail Bait as is is often used in that manner.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#19: Mar 16th 2021 at 2:53:29 AM

To recap current discussion, the trope definition could be one of two things:

  1. Legal or social concerns with dating an underage character (plot trope)
    • Comprising 37 examples in OP including Subtext (No Yay folder)
  2. A mature-looking underage character (character trope), subtrope of Younger Than They Look - possible ZCE magnet
    • 4-10 examples (including ZC Es)

If we go with this as a plot trope I think the trope name has to change to something like Jail Bait Trouble.

Edited by eroock on Mar 16th 2021 at 3:09:33 AM

Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Gentleman Troper!
#20: Mar 16th 2021 at 4:24:14 AM

[up] It strikes me that 1 overlaps a lot with The Jailbait Wait, and 2 overlaps a lot with Fille Fatale.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21: Mar 16th 2021 at 7:25:17 AM

Overlap only if said teen girl is actively seducing or at least teasing. “Jail bait” is for mature-looking underagr girls and the older dudes who are attracted to them, with or without any active effort on the girls’ part.

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#22: Mar 16th 2021 at 12:43:56 PM

[up][up]Not necessarily. It doesn't overlap if the taboo relationship actually happens without a wait, or if the relationship doesn't happen at all.

I think we should go with option 1 and rename. Jailbait can become a disambig between Younger Than They Look, the new name, and The Jailbait Wait.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#23: Mar 16th 2021 at 12:59:16 PM

[up]I think this is a good idea.

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#25: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:53:50 PM

Wondering if we should make a useful notes page on ages of consent. Since multiple trope pages (this one, The Jailbait Wait, SoCalization) have been bogged down with legal issues, perhaps all that info should be combined to one place.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

PageAction: JailBait
9th Apr '21 1:41:04 PM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

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