Opening since we now have closed a few TRS threads, and pinging ~MacronNotes as she was interested in making a thread on this trope as well.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanNote that we had a previous discussion where overly-detailed attention to potential legal issues was a problem because it obscured the trope of Jail Bait Wait. I'm not surprised that much of the same misuse is demonstrated here. Based on the wicks, the page isn't certain what the trope is supposed to be. I was expecting "character gets in trouble for dating an underage character", while "character avoids a relationship due to the other person being underage" is a sort of lampshaded or invoked aversion of the trope.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Yeah, it would make much more sense if the trope was “a character gets in trouble because they are in a relationship with an underage character (or someone who looks underage)” as that’s what the term jailbait alludes to anyways. The trope is bogged down with real life legal stuff that doesn’t matter when it comes to fictional portrayals like Jailbait Wait was.so we definitely have to hone in on a clear definition for this trope.
Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 11th 2021 at 12:15:41 PM
Macron's notesAgree.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure PurenessA "Rap sheet" is a slang term for your legal arrest record or list of times. The implication in that last example is that the character would be in a lot of legal trouble for having a list of hot underage girls.
I think crazysamaritan's definition seems reasonable, though "jailbait" is also often used in real life to mean a hot underage girl.
Edited by naturalironist on Mar 11th 2021 at 8:18:50 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
The problem I see with “a character gets in trouble because they are in a relationship with an underage character (or someone who looks underage)” is that most of the examples are about such relationships being perceived as bad, not about someone landing in trouble for pursuing them.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanSo are those particular examples more fit for Age-Gap Romance played for drama?
As far as I'm aware, the term "Jailbait" on the internet just means "attractive underage girl", which is chairs. If the trope is meant to be something more specific, then I think it needs a rename.
Edited by Spark9 on Mar 12th 2021 at 1:09:11 AM
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!My main concern is : the definition of jailbait everywhere else is “hot underage girl”. It may be more appropriate to turn Jail Bait into a definition only or fanspeak page and move “negative perceptions of relationships with underage character” elsewhere.
I don’t know about turning Jailbait into a definition only page (doesn’t sound like something that’s needed). I would prefer turning it out into a disambiguation (if that’s possible) if “ negative perceptions of relationships with a underage character” is going to be moved into its own trope.
Macron's notesTurning it into a disambiguation page sounds good if we already have multiple tropes related to the concept.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I don’t think we have a trope for teenage girls as Forbidden Fruit. Age-Gap Romance, sure, but this is so common I don’t see why it shouldn’t be separate.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"What about Fille Fatale?
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!I dunno, it doesn't seem like Jail Bait as is is often used in that manner.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanTo recap current discussion, the trope definition could be one of two things:
- Legal or social concerns with dating an underage character (plot trope)
- Comprising 37 examples in OP including Subtext (No Yay folder)
- A mature-looking underage character (character trope), subtrope of Younger Than They Look - possible ZCE magnet
- 4-10 examples (including ZC Es)
If we go with this as a plot trope I think the trope name has to change to something like Jail Bait Trouble.
Edited by eroock on Mar 16th 2021 at 3:09:33 AM
It strikes me that 1 overlaps a lot with The Jailbait Wait, and 2 overlaps a lot with Fille Fatale.
Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!Overlap only if said teen girl is actively seducing or at least teasing. “Jail bait” is for mature-looking underagr girls and the older dudes who are attracted to them, with or without any active effort on the girls’ part.
Not necessarily. It doesn't overlap if the taboo relationship actually happens without a wait, or if the relationship doesn't happen at all.
I think we should go with option 1 and rename. Jailbait can become a disambig between Younger Than They Look, the new name, and The Jailbait Wait.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"I think this is a good idea.
Yeah that’s a good idea
Macron's notesWondering if we should make a useful notes page on ages of consent. Since multiple trope pages (this one, The Jailbait Wait, SoCalization) have been bogged down with legal issues, perhaps all that info should be combined to one place.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
Currently, the trope description spends a lot of time talking about the legal intricacies of age of consent laws (while missing that often Younger Than They Look is a valid legal defence...) but it doesn't actually specify what the trope is.
Is it simply "teenager, as a sex object?", "teen-adult relationships portrayed as inappropriate", or something around these lines? Is Younger Than They Look a requirement? Wikipedia's page on it sort of implies the latter.
FWIW, while I am mostly complaining about the description and not about any misuse I've put a wick check down here:
Jade: "Bye!"
Numerous references, some of which may fall under "rejecting an underage relationship"
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Feb 21st 2021 at 11:46:48 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman